The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    32 vote(s)
    18.7%
  2. I hate it

    63 vote(s)
    36.8%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    20 vote(s)
    11.7%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    56 vote(s)
    32.7%
  1. Starduster

    Starduster

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    So, rapid fire response: Maekawa said that's his own unofficial interpretation, the website you've linked too doesn't suggest chronology and could just be grouping the two Rush games together for convenience (while also missing out Colours DS) and Iizuka, the bedrock source of the franchise, has said that Rush is Blaze's true backstory and that 06 should be ignored in that respect. This is without even getting into the fact that 06 taking place after Rush and Rush Adventure makes no logical sense and requires Blaze to randomly be a complete goddamn idiot in 06.
     
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  2. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    Blaze being in 06 messed up the whole thing.
    Even if 06 was retconned out of existence, the fandom hardly forgets it.
     
  3. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Right, let's look at this logically and figure this out.

    Blaze has a confirmed history in Sonic Rush, where she is the princess of a land. You hardly bestow the title of princess to some random person who just dropped from the sky. Sonic Rush Adventure has Nega further confirm this by noting Blaze's family has been guarding the Jewelled Sceptre for generations, so this is likely Blaze's homeland.

    Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) notes that she is the guardian of the Sol Emeralds in the manual, implying that this is still her backstory, but for whatever reason she has ended up in the future of Sonic's World.

    Now, it's a matter of which one is first: did Blaze end up in the future after Sonic Rush (and Sonic Rush Adventure, perhaps?), or before?

    The key point of it being after is her mentioning of the blue hedgehog when Silver makes note of what he's seeing. Which is fair, it does seem to suggest familiarity. I know there's a couple of further lines, but they appear to be cut and Blaze does not seem to interact further with Sonic to suggest she owes him immensely for assisting with the Sol Emeralds.

    Blaze also does not recognise Sonic in Sonic Rush, but as Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) removes itself from canon, then this doesn't really affect much, though does suggest whatever happened to send Blaze to the future happened because of the events of Sonic the Hedgehog (2006). Perhaps the Sol Emeralds sent her to help Silver? Either way, there is very little issue with the game taking place before, due to the game removing itself otherwise.

    Is there anything we're missing from Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)? I don't trust the cut lines as I don't know if we have context: does anyone know where those lines were cut from? And even then, should we count them since they were cut?
     
  4. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    Apparently, the cut lines were idle dialogue from Wave Ocean. I know someone posted a video of it a while ago, but I'm not having luck finding it at the moment. Either way, I would agree with your stance. The lines never made it into the final game, so at best it's ancillary canon like the comics.
     
  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Indeed, but it gives us more developmental insight into what they were thinking. Wave Ocean, then? That's the third level in Silver's campaign if I recall correctly, so early on...

    We'll need to look into that at some point.
     
  6. Starduster

    Starduster

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    The thing is, Sonic 06 also treats Blaze as if her being in the future with Silver is just entirely normal. Honestly, I wonder if we're on a fools errand here. What do we know about the development of Blaze relating to 06? Did Rush and 06 both feature their own interpretations of the character developed in tandem that ultimately ended up incongruous with each other, in the same way Sonic 2 and Sonic CD were developed as radically different spins on what a sequel to Sonic should be? There is no clean way to reconcile the Blazes of these two games, so it was probably best for us nerds with too much time that 06 wrote itself out of existence. At least that way, as you have said, it doesn't matter regardless of the original intent.
     
  7. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Trying to make sense of Blaze in 06 is probably a waste of time. I recall people posting a dev quote saying that Sonic 06 was originally going to have clear connections to Rush but they were vetoed. Blaze's convoluted and nonsensical role in the final game is likely a result of that.

    Blaze visits Wave Ocean independently of Silver later on. She's the only Amigo with a whole level of their own IIRC.
     
  8. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    For the sake of reference, I found the line. It plays at 2:47 in the video.

     
  9. BlackHole

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    Easy answer: Blaze has been there for a while, enough to know Silver and his mission well. She doesn't just turn up at the start of the game from a portal, she's clearly been there a while and actively assisting Silver. I might look into any references made to any time passage from when they met to the current events at some point.

    Sounds like two different audio cues there. Also, it's more the context we need to figure, since all we have is a random YouTube video that we can't find suggesting it's in Wave Ocean.

    Still, even then, with it being cut, we might be able to still have it pre-Sonic Rush to save the headache of why no cutscene of Sonic reacting to seeing her and vice versa.

    (Kinda worried Project 06 might try and incorporate this as well :V)
     
  10. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    We've talked about this before. IMO the simplest thing to do is to ignore completely the cut line and assume that Blaze doesn't know Sonic, thus 06 comes before Rush. Without the cut line, it's very easy to interpret that she doesn't know him. And placing 06 before Rush solves most of the issues, while Rush before 06 is a complete mess.

    So maybe the Sol Emeralds took her to Silver's future and she's been there for a while, enough to be friends with him.
     
  11. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

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    I literally posted all this Blaze stuff like two pages ago lol. Starting to wonder how many ignore lists I’m on!

    The original intent was fairly clearly that this was the same Blaze Sonic met previously in Rush. It makes zero sense and that plot point never gets followed up on, but the intent from the developers is known. I’m not sure what the current stance on it is, of course, but I don’t think you can argue when there’s voice files confirming it, even if the line didn’t make it in due to that feature not being implemented in time.

    I guess you could, but it would still make her “blue hedgehog?!” line and the one at the start of wave ocean kinda weird. Then again, it’s all weird anyway, right? I prefer your interpretation even if I don’t quite buy it, if that makes sense.
     
  12. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    "Blue hedgehog?! Hummm... I thought all hedgehogs were silver, but I guess the legends are true. In the past there were blue hedgehogs after all."
     
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  13. David The Lurker

    David The Lurker

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    "Could it really be him?" - wvo01_w00_bz.wav
    "Sonic..." - wap01_w00_bz.wav

    (These are the filenames over at Sounds Resource I'm going to assume they weren't made up completely)

    The first one is the idle dialogue she was meant to say in Wave Ocean. So she's been in the future, they've met Mephilis, Silver got to see a vision of Sonic while Blaze saw nothing and muses on what Silver meant by saying "Blue hedgehog." "Could it really be him?" makes sense if she's thinking that it might be Sonic, for what other person would she be considering? As pointed out earlier in this thread, she isn't thinking it's Silver. "The "Iblis Trigger"... A blue hedgehog... Can it be true? I need to find Silver fast!"

    The second idle line is from White Acropolis. At this point, she's met back with Silver, who has informed her that they need to go to Dr. Eggman's base. This is also the first time Blaze hears Eggman's name mentioned. Before, all she could do was idly speculate about what "blue hedgehog" could mean. Now? Another piece of the puzzle is coming into play. However, she does not say anything to Silver about Sonic. Does not mention anything about him. Why is that?

    Well, the real world reason was also mentioned in this thread, that a clear link between Rush and 06 was taken off the table. So instead, we have to get creative. Maybe it has something to do with time travel? She was in "the future," now she's in "the present," but what does that mean? Is this an Eggman who has gone up against Sonic? Is it some other blue hedgehog? His son?!?!?! Might make sense for her to keep tight lipped because she doesn't know exactly what's going on, or what time period she's actually in. If she starts talking about Sonic and he is nowhere to be seen, she is putting Silver at a disadvantage. She clearly is being cautious during the game. If she was being reckless, maybe she would talk to anyone other than Silver.

    I know the idle dialogue wasn't used in the final game, but that seems more a case of the devs not implementing it in time, considering everything we know about the development of this game. The intent seems to be that Blaze knows who Sonic is, but the writer's hands were tied to do anything meaningful with that piece of information.

    I think ignoring everything is nowhere near as fun. And I mean, having Rush happen for Blaze before the events of 06 also help explain why she knows anything about the Chaos Emeralds. She explains their nature to Silver after White Acropolis. Seems like a weird thing for her to know otherwise, since she learns about their existence and what they do in Sonic Rush. And we know the Sol Emeralds lead her around to do things. If she's in Sonic's world, does a thing, tries to go home, but the Sol Emeralds go "hold on a sec you need to go to the future instead because there's some weird things happening and you need to help," then she goes to the bad future to do just that. Even if it ends up being her talking to Silver and helping him get to a place where he can be useful at the end of all this.

    Why does Sonic not recognize Blaze? Well...do we know if he does or doesn't? The game doesn't show us their meeting. Silver tells Sonic he's not there to kill him anymore, a level happens, Sonic watches Elise explode off camera while Blaze is in the background. Did they exchange pleasantries? An off screen "Long time no see!" Or is it possible that Sonic hasn't met Blaze, but Blaze has met Sonic? Remember, we're dealing with time travel, not to mention that things can change. If Rush has happened, that means Eggman Nega exists. Eggman Nega is from the future, but clearly not the future we see in 06. So there's always the weird possibility that Sonic Rush has happened for Blaze, but hasn't happened for Sonic. And if that's the case...

    Of course, I'd also argue that Blaze never forgot the events of Sonic 06, but has never had a reason to ever talk about them because when she does see Silver again, she knows its not "her" Silver, but that's a whole other can of worms.
     
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  14. BlackHole

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    I know, it's why I didn't use the Aoi thing. I did try and find them but for some reason I couldn't seem to locate 'em. Though I've been busy and stressed, so might be a factor.

    Thank you for this information, so Wave Ocean and White Acropolis...

    I'll want to check the Japanese at some point, but it's a good set of points for Sonic Rush having happened for Blaze at least. I wonder if there's any further voice lines or cutscenes cut somewhere in the data of Sonic and Blaze interacting...

    There is some other points we'll need to look into, though:

    "So, this is the past..."

    This is said by Blaze when she first gets set back, suggesting she's not been there before, as she would've been during Sonic Rush.

    Could you check what Blaze says in this scene? It's her first scene after Mephiles sends her and Silver to the past.

    She does also note once more "blue hedgehog..." though.
     
  15. Azookara

    Azookara

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    Blaze in 06 didn't happen. We all hallucinated it. That's my final answer.
     
  16. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    My headcanon was that '06 happened first and after Blaze took on the burden of Iblis and disappeared, she ended up in the Sol Dimension. Then when the timeline reset, she lost her memories but didn't end up in the main universe again, and then Rush happened. Sonic and Blaze never interacted in '06, either, so I don't think it'd contradict him not knowing who she is when they meet in Rush.
     
  17. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    But that looks to me like Blaze's origin is Silver's future, and only after that she ended up in the Sol Dimension. Problem is, in Rush she is established as the princess of the Sol Dimension and that her family is doing something for ages. She must be from the Sol Dimension.
     
  18. big smile

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    My original headcanon was that 06 takes place before Rush. When 06 is wiped out, it has a different effect on Blaze due to her being in another dimension and she effectively takes on a new history in the dimension, becoming a princess and guardian of that dimension.

    But her Sonic Channel profile says the following:
    The power of the Sol Emeralds allows her to travel between Sonic's world and her own, but it seems that she sometimes travels through time and space when doing so.

    That sounds like they are (possibly?) throwing shade at the Sol Emeralds being the reason for Blaze in 06.

    Plus Iizuka mentioned that Blaze in 06 could be explained by everyone having amnesia. It was probably just a joke but running with jokes is all part of being a fan.

    So my new headcanon is that Rush takes place first. At the end of the Rush, when Blaze is warping back to her dimension, she is overwhelmed with emotions. She originally believed she couldn’t have friends due to her royal duties but had now seen that wasn’t the case. Plus the Sol Emeralds had only just regained their power (Moments before, Blaze had to fuel them with the power of friendship to turn into Burning Blaze, so they weren't working normally). Hence, instead of traveling to her own dimension, her emotions inadvertently affect the Sol Emeralds accidentally sending her to Sonic’s future with amnesia.

    She no longer remembers he royal duties and so can find the friendship she so desperately wanted, this time with Silver.

    When she time travels into the past, it’s before the events of Rush, which is why Sonic doesn’t recognize her. Seeing him, however, starts to awaken her memories of Rush, which is why she keeps on talking about a blue hedgehog and also knew about the Chaos Emeralds. When she seals Iblis, she’s pulled to her own dimension where, back with the Sol Emeralds, her amnesia is cured.

    P.S. I know a lot of this is stretch and convoluted, but it does (possibly?) feel like Sonic Team wanted Rush to come first and this is a way to do it.
    Also, special thanks to David the Lurker as his posts and theories inspired me to look at the 06/Rush connections differently.
     
  19. BlackHole

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    The latter is Sonic Rush Adventure. Quote the Nega:

    "It was your royal family that kept the scepter nice and safe for all these generations. Now that they've served that purpose, though, I have no further need of them. It will take only a fraction of this power to wipe your kingdom off the map! Haahaha!"
     
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  20. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Unfortunetely Ian doesn't quite like the theory of the Sol Emeralds taking Blaze into Silver's future. If some explanation comes up in the near future, it's probably not gonna be that.