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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Couple of points of information on that:

    Sonic Rush released in 2005, not 2004. Doesn't really change anything, just thought I'd point it out.

    Sonic Generations makes reference to Sonic and the Secret Rings. Furthermore, I don't think the canonicity of the storybook games have every been contested by SEGA sources. They're pretty much alternate universes but the events do occur in Sonic's personal timeline.
     
  2. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Weird, why do I remember it in 2004... Like, not disputing it, googled it and you're right, but I could've sworn it was 2004...

    This is true, though I think Sonic Generations also just mentioned getting sucked into books, covering both. I miss Windii's translations...
     
  3. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Can't speak to the JP script but the localisation said "rescuing genies in magic books".
     
  4. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I've added them in. Post-Sonic Rivals 2 for Sonic and the Secret Rings, since Sonic reacts to the name Ifrit in Sonic and the Secret Rings while having none in the former, and post-Sonic Unleashed for Sonic and the Black Knight, since Sonic can accept Amy's invite to a date in the former, and lo and behold he was on one with her in the latter.

    Anything else?
     
  5. Hydr0city

    Hydr0city

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    No yeah, it's not super complicated to place most Sonic games within a coherent timeline - I just mean that Sega is like "WE GOTTA CREATE A TIMELINE DON'T TOUCH IT", which is still kind stupid, but I guess they just want things done the way they want to do them, even if that means putting games off-limits so that they can make their own timeline for whatever reason. That seems to be their standard practice with Sonic stuff, especially given a lot of the stuff Ian says he wasn't allowed to do/etc., because I believe it goes through SoJ (or just Sega in general)
     
  6. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Honestly, I can't really blame them given how far the book got away from them under Penders. I can imagine they're very eager to not have a repeat of past mistakes.
     
  7. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Pretty much that.

    I would argue though that Advance 1 should be placed after Adventure 2, because there's no strong reason for not doing it. So this would respect the releasing dates and group the two series nicely.
    And of course, there's that thing with Mania and Sonic 4 being in two different timelines, and the Rivals' series being supposedly non-canon, and etc.

    In case of including the Riders series, I would argue that Riders 1 should be placed after Secret Rings, because Sonic had never read the book before, while in Riders he acknowledges flying carpets as a thing that was supposed to exist only in fiction. It's not a very strong argument, but kind of a nice one.
     
  8. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Aren't there knight versions of the Babylon Rogues and other such characters in Black Knight's multiplayer? Granted, said mode is probably non-canon, but given the Rogues have appeared in both the Archie and IDW book and the Olympics series, I think it's fair to say the Riders games are canon.
     
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    And I will continue to argue against a split timeline until the day I die, but just envision a split if you wish since I can't effectively do that in text.

    Did note they were included since no other reintroduction story, so otherwise Silver would just kind of be popping up and greeted out of nowhere...

    I think the inverse: Sonic comments they only exist in fiction as you advise, but I don't think he'd make that comment if Sonic and the Secret Rings had happened by that point.

    There are, yes.
     
  10. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    55:41
    - @BKQA Can Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic the Fighters and the Game Gear games be canon only to the "classic dimension" and not to "modern"? Is it possible?

    - There is an answer to this but I don't know if I can give it yet. Let's just say a very confusing and ambiguous 'yes'.



    1:20:04
    - @BKQA Considering Generations implied that Blaze was connected to Crisis City's appearance and we see her go Burning after absorbing Iblis, do you think a part of Iblis still resides within Blaze?

    - I mean it should. It's in her, she didn't let it go, as far as we know.

    - Is Generations canon?

    - Yeah, I mean, Crisis City shoudn't have shown back up because that entire timeline was erased. But, from my understanding now, is that that timeline still persists to a degree. (...)



    1:39:21
    - So do Silver and Blaze know each other? Or is it like a subconscious nagging, they seem to be paired in various games after 06.

    - Whether they remember their past together, I think is still a 'no', but I'm gonna assume that they've interacted enough since then that they know each other. And that that kind of undercurrent of familiarity has just been accepted between the two of them. They don't quite get it, they don't know why, but they just sink and they're okay with that.

     
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  11. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    So I guess they decided Blaze’s 06 appearance is part of her current iteration, despite the weird causality stuff with her knowing Sonic in that game. I was honestly hoping they just wouldn’t even address anything from it so that’s disappointing.
     
  12. Starduster

    Starduster

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    I thought that the idea of Blaze knowing Sonic in 06 was entirely vague and more a product of suggestion due to Rush releasing first, despite it making more sense for 06’s story to lead into Rush?
     
  13. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I was expecting @BlackHole to show up here all excited by the first answer I quoted.
     
  14. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    I made a big boring effortpost about it earlier in the thread but Blaze acts surprised when a blue hedgehog is mentioned and there are voice files of her talking about Sonic. I’ll go dig up my post

    edit: here it is
     
  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I hate the fact they're potentially going to say they're canon only to the Classic Dimension. I do like they're looking to make them canon, but I hate it's potentially stipulated on a stupid mandate from SEGA (the Classic/Modern Split).
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  16. Roller

    Roller

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    The split is unmistakably text, a lore codification for an already-existing brand dichotomy. Its entire thing is allowing incongruous parts of the franchise that don't fit the current brand vision to persist in the margins, so it not only makes sense that Chaotix et al would benefit from it, it actively justifies the endeavour.

    (A little off topic, but incidentally, this is why I think the fan demand for Sally Acorn to come back is being pitched wrong. Her role is already filled several times over by the modern lore attached to Speed Battle and the IDW series, but we explicitly have a world built to house old visions of the brand. My gut is it'd ruffle less executives' feathers to lobby for her there instead.)
     
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  17. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I wouldn't say the classic dimension/timeline was built to house the original visions of the brand. Mania didn't respect the original visions for Mighty, Ray, Bark or Bean, for instance. And if we're shoving random cartoon characters like Sally in the classic universe, where do we stop? Are we also putting in the rest of the Freedom Fighters, as well Sonic the Comic's Freedom Fighters, and Manic and Sonia from Underground?

    If yes, that would result in a rather convoluted and bloated cast, not to mention most of these characters don't even fit the games' universe to begin with, or are redundant (Rotor existed solely to serve the role Tails already fulfilled in the games). Or would be hard to do justice. Imagine adding Cosmo from Sonic X. Do they also adapt her race's lore, leading to an adaptation of the Metarex saga? Or do they skip all that stuff, despite her backstory being such an essential part of her character and motivation?

    If not, then who is the one deciding which characters are "worthy" of being added and which aren't? That's a recipe for disaster. Imagine all the arguments and flame wars among fans, and the further fragmentation of the fanbase.
     
  18. Roller

    Roller

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    "Mania doesn't respect the visions for Mighty, Ray, Bark, or Bean" is a hell of a take. I know the latter two's antagonism was added later, but seriously, you're splitting hairs.

    The classic universe exists to preserve the game Sonic of the early-to-mid 90's in a way that doesn't require SEGA to infinitely inject new Star Wars interquel spinoffs to access it. That is its core function, and it has the side benefit of re-integrating previously-discarded experimental game material. I was just remarking that it's a lot easier to remove the word "game" from that definition - without making any statement, assumption, or judgement about how they might tackle that in practice - than it is to let characters they didn't originally have a hand in into the actively curated modern-era lore.
     
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  19. Blue Spikeball

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    The original Mighty wasn't super strong AFAIK, that came from localizations and western adaptations. He and Ray weren't established to have a big brother-little brother relationship as in Mania Adventures, that was taken from Archie. Mighty's Chaotix profile describes him as a nature-loving pacifist whose purpose in life is traveling the world. We don't see that in Mania or Mania Adventures.

    Bark being a bad guy was a far cry from his original supposed characterization as a gentle, shy and kindhearted guy.
     
  20. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    And the split wouldn't fix that.

    Friendly reminder that the split is a timeline split. Classic and Modern were the same to a point before something causes a split. Mighty would be the same in either timeline because they were the same timeline until that split.