The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    31 vote(s)
    19.7%
  2. I hate it

    59 vote(s)
    37.6%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    19 vote(s)
    12.1%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    48 vote(s)
    30.6%
  1. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Honestly, any number of things could better explain the walking plothole of the Phantom Ruby. But SEGA has it as it is now, some sort of paradox with it randomly time travelling back and forth between alternative timelines, but its power is illusion based.

    I've explained I'd prefer it a copy of the original in Sonic Forces several times, myself, but I won't beat a dead horse.
     
  2. Levi Church

    Levi Church

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    So would Team Sonic Racing also be in that pocket universe? Because that game had one of Dr. Eggman's mass-produced Death Egg Robots.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
  3. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    So a thought occurs. A popular theory is Gerald Robotnik happened upon the mural of Super Sonic vs Robotnik from Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles, which is why Shadow is a hedgehog. What if the theory is just slightly off the mark?

    [​IMG]

    Consider, there's a major ruin with hedgehog statues on Angel Island. What if there's other ruins around the Echidna locations with similar Sonic the Hedgehog statues that inspired Gerald to make Shadow a hedgehog?

    Just a random thought I had.
     
  4. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I think something about ancient hedgehogs is coming up soon. That could become the explanation for Shadow to be a hedgehog.

    What I don't get is why Biolizard is a lizard.
     
  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Some regrow body parts that are lost. What better to experiment creating eternal life on?
     
  6. Billy

    Billy

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    I think most people who subscribe to the theory that Shadow was based off the Super Sonic mural, follow the same logic and think Biolizard was based off the mural of Perfect Chaos:
    [​IMG]
     
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    They do have the same roar, when it becomes the Finalhazard...

    1:29


    0:06
     
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  8. Pengi

    Pengi

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    I don't think either were intentional, or hold up to much scrutiny. The ARK already has Chaos-derived creations with the Artificial Chaos series, which aren't subtle about the connection, the Biolizard doesn't look anything like Chaos, and Chaos has nothing to do with lizards. The Project Shadow report that Rouge digs up contains information on the Biolizard and doesn't make any mention of Chaos or the Chao. "The Truth of 50 Years Ago" from the Japanese guide books just says that the prototype was modeled after a lizard.

    As for why Shadow is a hedgehog, as far as I'm aware that's been kept a complete mystery. Sonic Adventure 2 referenced things from Sonic Adventure 1, but didn't really reference much of anything from the classic games (Green Hill aside). So while Gerald knew about the emerald altar we see in SA1, which used to be part of the Mystic Ruins, there's no indication that he knew anything about the secret underground Hidden Palace Zone, which was probably constructed after Pachacamac's era, when Angel Island was in the sky and hidden from the world below.
     
  9. I think the environmental design in Sonic’s segment of Cannon’s Core makes it pretty clear that Gerald was familiar with Lost World. While it may or may not be true that Gerald designed Biolizard after Chaos, game developers do enjoy communicating story elements in all aspects of their work. Despite the jokes made by frustrated students in literature class, most things really are chosen with intent by the creator.

    Edit: I’m also not sure why you say Adventure mentions little from the classic games. The events of Sonic CD are mentioned (Amy’s story and NPC dialogue), Sonic 3K is referenced in the dialogue about Knuckles getting tricked, the Tornado is present, Angel Island exists and has Ice Cap, Knuckles is still the line guardian of Angel Island, etc.

    Outside of referencing the Death Egg, I’m not sure what else you could ask for. There really isn’t any indication that the game is establishing a new universe outside of character design changes, which weren’t even present until later in development.

    Edit 2: You didn’t say that! I guess I skimmed the post and misread. My b.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Also the outright mentions of the events:
    [​IMG]
    Can't forget about those.
     
  11. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    SA1 references events from the classic games, but SA2 really doesn't which is what Pengi said.

    Saying that, what do the Japanese strategy guides mention about the Artificial Chaos? Do they have a profile?
     
  12. Yeah, that’s what I meant by the “referred to Sonic CD (NPC dialogue).” Didn’t realize he also mentioned Angel Island in that quote though.

    I have no idea how I misread that lol… my bad Pengi.
     
  13. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Yeah I know this theory. And I think I could be a fine explanation, since there's a bunch of Chaos' research in SA2 with no apparently relation to the whole Shadow/Maria/Biolizard arc. Besides, maybe they knew about the legends of Chaos talking about some dragon and thought that a lizard is the closest thing we get to a dragon.

    But I just don't think they look alike that much.
     
  14. Pengi

    Pengi

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    It's almost certainly based on a lizard because they can regrow their tails.

    https://pastebin.com/hudavzXH

    It would have made more sense for it to be a salamander, which have more impressive regenerative capabilities, but the same can be said for the Spider-Man villain.

    The Artificial Chaos series are made of liquid, like Chaos, and their robotic heads and eyes are shaped like Chaos' head and eyes. In-story, Gerald and his team had an idea what Chaos looked like. Out of story, Sonic Team made the connection very obvious with the name and design parallels.
     
  15. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Does Biolizard ever use Chaos's roar SFX or am I making that up?
     
  16. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    It does, but as the FinalHazard. If you mean as the Biolizard itself, not that I know of.
     
  17. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Come to think of it, what's the deal with artificial chaos? Like G.U.N. must've at least known *about* it to be able to recreate it 50 years ago, but then surely the biggest source of info on it is going to be that mural on Angel Island?
     
  18. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    The mural is in the Mystic Ruins, they're on the land. Angel Island crashes nearby, I think one of the NPCs mentions there's a mountain there that wasn't before, but it's not where the Mystic Ruins are located, as they have enough inhabitation to have a trainline to and from Station Square, and a old mine to the ruins themselves.
     
  19. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Either way, if that mural is all they had to go off, then G.U.N. got a hell of a lot right when creating it.
     
  20. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Gerald and his team created the Artificial Chaos series. They appear in the "Lost Impact" flashback level in Shadow the Hedgehog, where Maria refers to them as "grandfather's experiments". They're called Artificial Chaos in-story and Maria remarks that they're based on the god of an ancient culture. So Gerald knew about Chaos, he knew his name and what he looked like.