Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.
I've never played it, but it looks boring. Rivals 2 looks slightly better, not much though.
Rivals 1 was your typical Sonic game from that era. It had nice ideas but the experience was ruined by the level design and its obsession with bottomless pits and cheap hits. The story is interesting and bizarre:
It revolves around Onyx Island which is the future version of Angel Island. Also if the Master Emerald is removed in one time period it disappears from all of them, which makes no sense at all.
For Rivals 2, they fixed the level design. The bottomless pits were mostly removed. And instead, they introduced more routes through the levels. Often winning the races depended on exploring and finding the best routes. In these post-Generation/Mania times, it probably doesn't seem like a big deal. But back then, it was the closest a Sonic game had got to emulating the level design of the classics (of course, it was still way off, but you take what you can get). Annoyingly, they added some silly fighting bonus levels in between the racing stages, but it's not enough to spoil things.
I'm surprised it gets regarded as non-canon as it was the first reintroduction of Silver to the series, the first time Eggman Nega was established as coming from the future, and I've seen several places list Iizuka as the story writer.
And they keep these aspects while treating it as non-canon. Which is why I just put everything I think fits into as timeline, because SEGA just has some weird fascination with making everything in this series needlessly complex, barring the actual level design portion...
It looks like 3DS Generations, and plays like multiplayer from Sonic 2, but less fun.
Had some interesting ideas though, and Metal Sonic is playable in second game. The stories are unfortunately all over the place.
The prototypes were for a perfected model he gave to Infinite. Eggman finds the original one from Mania outside his base according to the tie-in comic.
Okay...that's a fun one. It happens after.
- In the post credits for Sonic 3, you see an Eggrobo come out from under the rubble. This EggRobo is the one that harasses Knuckles I his campaign.
- Another detail is how since Angel island sank into the ocean before the start of the game, all the levels were actually flooded with water. a Keen attention to detail is actually how Knuckles' playthrough has less water to reflect how it isn't in the ocean now. Sections of Water are straight of gone.
- When you go to Lava Reef and Hidden palace, there is no Death Egg in the background because it was destroyed by Sonic in his playthrough.
- Lastly is of course the fact Knuckles is shown to be too tired to continue after getting shocked because it doesn't happen in Knuckles because that happened earlier. Knuckles instead goes straight to Sky Sanctuary, no Eggman intervention.
- His final boss, Mecha Sonioc, is the result of him not being fully defeated in Sonic's playthrough. This is also why knuckles doesn't get on the Death Egg. Its destroyed.
So where do the problems lie? When during Sonic 4 fiasco, they were trying to say they happened at the same time even though that is impossible. This was also when they tried to claim CD happened after rather than before Sonic 2.
Actually going by concept art, the Phantom Ruby in Mania was a prototype. So it would have originated in Modern Sonic's dimension/timeline before warping to Classic Sonic's dimension/timeline for some unknown reason (Eggman testing its reaction to the Chaos Emeralds?)
Maybe it's because Mania released first, but I had it in my head until I first saw that concept art that the Phantom Ruby originated in the classic era before being thrown forward in time at the end of Mania and being found in the desert by Eggman in the Rise of Infinite comic.
It's always bothered me how under the "PR originated from Mania" idea, the Phantom Ruby arrives over half a year before Classic does using the exact same portal at the exact same time. (Imagine Classic on Eggman's doorstep in the comic with the PR, just immediately going to kick his ass like in Gens mirror room/that one Forces Green Hill boss cutscene, it would be glorious~)
The "PR originated from Forces, and one of many prototypes got sent to Mania via ??? means" official concept ties in a smidge better with that as well as Infinite hunting them down (did they escape? lol), but runs into the problem of the Mania protoPR just not doing anything for the whole Forces plot until sending Classic back to do Encore.
Not the first time a 2D game and a 3D game tying into each other has caused issues, but hopefully the last time for a while.
I'm being sarcastic due to the massive plotholes regarding the Phantom Ruby.
Why must you taunt me with better Sonic Forces ideas?
Honestly, I just wish they'd just had the Phantom Ruby be destroyed in Sonic Mania and a prototype copy be the focus of Sonic Forces. But no, we've got a thing that apparently warps Sonic through time and space* while only ever making illusions.
*While it can be argued the Chaos Emeralds doing that in Sonic Mania, the issue still exists due to Sonic Forces' ending where Classic Sonic goes back to his timeline for no discernible reason except 'destroyed Phantom Ruby but not really'.
The prologue in Sonic Mania's manual says: "Discovering a sudden dimensional breach in the atmosphere, evil genius Dr. Eggman detected a unique wave signature emanating from Angel Island."
This implies that the Phantom Ruby we see in Sonic Mania isn't native to the Classic Sonic Universe.
In the Sonic Forces: Rise of Infinite comic, Eggman's sensors pick up an energy signature right outside of his base. It's unknown where the Phantom Ruby came from or how it got there. So the Phantom Ruby that Modern Eggman got his hands on probably wasn't native to the Modern Sonic Universe.
Basically, the Phantom Ruby comes out of nowhere, causes untold chaos, refuses to elaborate and leaves.
Easier: it's a '06 situation. When the final Death Egg Robo is destroyed, the Phantom Ruby is teleported to Eggman's door in the comic. Also, when Classic Super Sonic messes with the Chaos Emeralds and the Phantom Ruby, the rogue jewel sends Classic to Forces and goes back in time to Angel Island like its modern counterpart did with Eggman's door, but the classic characters that have been in contact with it, including the returning Sonic, are affected by the previous timeline and remember the events that happened then up to the destruction of the hard boiled heavies, leading to a repetition of the same adventure but tweaked by what they learned the first time. Eggman being sucked at the end of encore mode sends him to the next classic game, with anything happening in the process becoming his next plot.
- Bumblecast, does Sonic physically age? Like, has he ever been a kid and stuff ever, it’d be nice to see like a little reference to sonic being younger in IDW or something
- There is an answer to this, but I probably shouldn't get into it right now.
- Who owns the legal rights to the IDW exclusive characters? Ian? IDW? SEGA? Who?
- ♪ Sega ♪
- I have a question, if shadow is the ultimate life form who can’t be infected by any virus which is why his dna was planned to be used to cure Maria how was he infected by the metal virus?
See, I'd have to go back and refresh my research on this but, the idea that Shadow can't be infected I think might be fanon. Gerald was researching the ultimate life form as a means of finding some way to cure Maria, but I don't know if it's been definitively stated that Shadow himself is, like, a walking immunity. [then he asks for people to find sources for that, if they exist]. And even in the case that he is naturally immune to normal diseases, this is the metal virus. This is not a biological disease, this is a mechanical disease. It's different.
They should just say the Phantom Ruby is a fragment of the Time Easter. It's origin kinda has to be related to time travel in my opinion to explain how Silver's timeline changed.
I was just thinking, are rings canon?
Like that sounds like a really dumb question at first but when you think about it you start to realize that in any of the modern sonic games, the characters never actually mention rings. They usually don't appear in cutscenes and are essentially just a gameplay mechanic, not really an actual object in sonic's world. This is contradicted by the fact that rings are sometimes currency, but sometimes there's just dollars? Seriously, it seems like sega can't make up their mind as to whether or not rings are an actual thing or just a gameplay mechanic.
The Dimensional Rings from Flickie's Island the Special Rings from Chaotix factor heavily into the story both, so those types of rings certainly are canon to the Classic division.
Yeah rings have been absent from the IDW comics because we just don't know what they are really. But they are canon since the two Tails talk about Sonic collecting rings in Generations. I am looking forward to see how Sonic Prime addresses it since Sonic is seen collecting rings in the clip.
That could have been just a canon-ignoring meta joke by Pontac and Graff.
SEGA currently doesn't like the idea of the gimmicks being part of the story, so idw couldn't carry over the concept of rings being some kinda power source from Archie. Considering the running theme of IDW giving a much closer glimpse into the direction they want for the games, I'm willing to bet they don't have a canonical use for them at this point in time and Sonic isn't actually be supposed to acknowledge them. They probably heavily regret the line in generations.
That's nice and all but the concept is not what is reflected in the final product. In the tie in comic, it is explained Eggman got it because it fell at his doorstep. So unless he made the prototype and it went back in time to before he made it or some nonsense....
I'm pretty certain that in an older draft of Forces, Classic Sonic was supposed to be purely a construct of the Ruby's power created by Tails, hence why he leaves at the end of the game and they have this heartfelt goodbye. But that's just my speculation
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