The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    31 vote(s)
    19.7%
  2. I hate it

    59 vote(s)
    37.6%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    19 vote(s)
    12.1%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    48 vote(s)
    30.6%
  1. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    To be blunt, Ian Flynn seems to have a thing for using nonproof to validate his headcanons. This is the same man who declared that the wanted posters of Bean and Bark in Generations were proof that they were part of a villainous gang with Fang like in his Archie stories. Nevermind that R̶u̶b̶y̶E̶c̶l̶i̶p̶s̶e̶ ArchangelUK (the guy who added them) had previously stated that they were just non-canon Easter eggs :V
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
  2. That is definitely something a fan of this series would do, Ian Flynn being a huge Sonic fan.
     
  3. It's actually a shift on Ian's headcannon for the timeline though. The last Archie adaptation of the games at the end of the run went Sonic 1 - 2 GG (Flashback in main series) - 2 - CD - 3 - K. Also in CD Sonic mentions hazy memories of Generations as it was in one timeline/Dimension there since this was before forces.

    So during the writing for the encyclopedia he likely had access to more documentation that likely he couldn't explicitly reference so went with minor hints to the timeline as given proof. With Sega apparently scrutinizing everything thoroughly I'd doubt they'd let it slip if factually wrong, though there are minor errors in the book. That said, he'd had access to game scripts going back to Unleashed being released, so wider access doesn't seem too far fetched.

    Edit: Also, for the Hooligans. Considering an equivalent was a planned team for Heroes I'm left to wonder if Ian wrote it in knowing about that. That would certainly be a question for a Bumblekast. Even if not, it's kind of ascended fanon at this point with Mania more or less now anyways.
     
  4. Adamis

    Adamis

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    Wasn't it Kevin Eva who added them ?
     
  5. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Did he really think that CD took place between 2 and 3? I haven't read most of Flynn's Archie run, so I don't know how he handled it, but perhaps it was a deliberate change that made sense in the Archie universe? Didn't he also adapt Sonic the Fighters before S3?

    The encyclopedia definitely had a number of inaccuracies that slipped under the radar. I remember people pointing mistakes like actions or lines being attributed to the wrong character, or behind the scene details getting mixed up.

    You mean the transformations/illusions by Heavy Magician? :V

    Right, it was ArchangelUK. I got them mixed up. Thanks for the correction.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
  6. Well, it was the classic adaptation arc at the end of the series. Issues 288 through 291 were adaptations of 1/2/CD/3K that were actually canon to the then laid out timeline, which I think was right around Mania's release so sort of a classic tie in due to that. It was also around when Overdrive came out as well I think.

    Ian actually did have a timeline thread on the Bumbleking forums for post 252 Archie, and his reasoning for timeline placements. I think the fan chronologies you might see for Archie came out of that thread. I think it lined up with the adaptations. I can't find the bumbleking forum archive anywhere now because I was looking for answers to a couple of things recently.

    As for the illusions, kinda. That, the Mirage Saloon wanted posters, the Heroes trivia, and the fact with the anniversary specials IDW did allowed Ian to use a version of the Hooligans again it kinda seems like it's sticking at this point.

    Also, while it was ArchangelUK who pitched it and had some of his proposed Easter Eggs make it in to generations, I think all the brand representatives were allowed to pitch things while it was being discussed. I think it was just RubyEclipse's didn't make the cut for any. So that may be why on discussion of Generations, I regularly see confusion elsewhere.

    Edit: trying to find a link to further the point. I have to check notes to find the Aaron stuff if i have it. I also droped by the Archangel explains it all post too. He mentions a poll deciding the levels in Generations given to the fans. I could swear before much was known about Generations I did a Sega poll for much the same purpose. Anyone remember anything about it?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I've just thought of something that might be delightfully ironic:

    If we consider Metal Sonic as Mecha Sonic Model no. 1, built from future technology and all subsequent models an attempt to catch up, Robotnik's shenanigans might have locked him out from making more Metal Sonics.

    Because if he went to the future, it was likely the Good Future we see. Go back in time, interfere with the past, you get the Bad Future, and all that technology he just used is replaced with ruined technology of his own development.

    The reason we don't see more Metal Sonics of a similar caliber as the original body is because Robotnik can't get to the technology used to construct him any more.

    Almost curious about those missing model numbers as well... if we consider every appearance of even similar looking Mecha Sonics as individual appearances of different models, then we only get up to 6 before Rocket Metal...

    Mecha Sonic Model no. 1 - Metal Sonic
    Mecha Sonic Model no. 2 - Death Egg Mecha Sonic
    Mecha Sonic Model no. 3 - Crystal Egg Mecha Sonic
    Mecha Sonic Model no. 4 - Atomic Destroyer Metal Sonic
    Mecha Sonic Model no. 5 - Sky Sanctuary Mecha Sonic
    Mecha Sonic Model no. 6 - Metal Sonic Kai
    Mecha Sonic Model no. 29 - Rocket Metal Sonic
    Mecha Sonic Model no. ? - Aerobase Mecha Sonic (might be upgraded Model 2, has some of Model 5's abilities.)
    Mecha Sonic Model no. ? - Sonic Adventure Mecha Sonic
     
  8. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I don't know if I would put Metal Sonic as one of the Mecha Sonics, because Metal Sonic itself is already a model lineage. There is that Metal Sonic 3.0 in Sonic Rivals 2, and possibly the 2.0 is that one from Sonic Heroes.
     
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Rocket Metal indicates the Metal Sonics are Mecha Sonics, seeing as he's literally labelled as such.

    You can have upgraded versions of a specific model. I think of it like Phantasy Star Online: you've got Episode II of the original, and Phantasy Star Online 2. Alternatively, Final Fantasy IV has Final Fantasy IV: The After Years and Final Fantasy V as followups. In this case, you've got Mecha Sonic Model no. 2 and Metal Sonic 3.0.
     
  10. Eeeyyy, glad to see more people also realize the planet in Advance 3 is split into 7 pocket zones and not literally broken apart. It's visibly shown all throughout the game, so I'm not sure where the "it literally broke apart like Unleashed" came from but aaaaayyyyyy, Advance 3- my baybeeee
     
  11. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Well I really don't know why do you think it is so visibly shown. The initial cutscene doesn't show that; the text at the beginning of the game doesn't tell that; and the game itself doesn't show that (or does it? I really don't remember, sorry). Okay, there's a hub world where you need to access some special ring to enter a level, but this could be simply a game mechanic, not story-related. Also, I don't know how Chaos Control creates "pockets of reality". Has it happened before?

    I like this pocket dimension thing because it avoids potential plotholes with Unleashed, but I see it more as a retcon.
     
  12. Firstly, the giant rings. Known since the first game to be gateways between dimensions. In this game, the mysterious Sonic Factory exists inside.

    Second, the post-boss cutscenes. After Eggman is defeated in each zone, the characters traverse through distorted, rainbow colored voids to reach the next zone.

    Third, the opening cutscene. While not explicitly stated, Eggman performing chaos control and the entire horizon getting engulfed in white kinda makes it seem like Eggman distorted space-time over a considerable area.

    Fourth, the Master Emerald. It's power is able to solve the chaotic weather plaguing Angel Island (likely caused by Eggman) and instantly return it back to the way it was, like Sonic and Shadow's reverse chaos control at the end of SA2 that fixed the ark. (My point here is that chaos control distorted the world, and the Master Emerald undoes it- last time I checked, the Master Emerald didn't stop Dark Gaia and fix the planet lol).

    And last, even though it's not proof of anything, when you find Cream in Cyber Track (a fully digital world) she says she was taking Cheese for a walk and (somehow) got completely lost. This is post Heroes. I don't buy it lol. Something happened to Cream to have her wind up in a totally digital world completely split off from everything else. The pocket zones being created gives a somewhat reasonable explanation.

    But that's just what I was able to infer when I first got the game back in 2012, so don't just take my word alone for it.
     
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  13. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    - (...) What ever happened to Launch Base post Sonic 3? It's still around during Knuckles' campaign in Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Is it just collecting dust on some remote lake on Angel Island? Has it blown itself up?

    - Interestingly, that actually got a note in something I worked on recently... and I'm working under the assumption now that Knuckles dismantled it. Like, it's gone. (...)

     
  14. Timestamp?
     
  15. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Sorry, I thought the link was already at the right time. It's at 59:51.
     
  16. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    That's interesting considering Death Yard Zone exists in Sonic Rivals on Future Angel Island Onyx Island. I keep forgetting that game is somehow non-canon though.
     
  17. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Well even if the game were canon, Onyx Island is in the future. Knuckles would be already dead at that time, and who knows who is protecting the island after that.
     
  18. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    Well yes, but if he's dismantled Launch Base in the present, why is Death Yard (presumably Launch Base of the future) standing in the future?
     
  19. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Was Death Yeard the Launch Base of the future? I didn't know that. I thought it was just another place.
     
  20. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    So pretty much what I thought was happening.

    In Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles, Knuckles goes through the Launch Base Zone and takes out pipes to flood at least a portion of the base, and after the boss fight the place explodes, throwing him down into Mushroom Hill Zone. I figured what he was doing was submerging the foundation to soften the blow to the surrounding area before taking it out and allowing the base to collapse into the lake.

    To me, the Sonic the Hedgehog 3 portion was Knuckles cleaning up the remnants of Robotnik's forces on the island, which is why he jumps down to Hydrocity and such, since the badniks were generally concentrated in Sonic's path. Once he's done with Launch Base Zone, he's pretty much good, until he's assaulted while resting after this (the Sonic & Knuckles cutscene) and the EggRobo and Mecha Sonic reveal a fresh assault, using badniks built on the Flying Battery for a new wave to claim the Master Emerald. Take out the Flying Battery, remove the last of the invasion wave and go deal with EggRobo and Mecha Sonic.