The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Scarred Sun, Apr 7, 2010.

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  1. I would love to see a return of mid level bosses as well. I would also love to see more than 4 zones.

    If anyone is interested I made a casino street act 3 bass remix last night
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6_U1ZMOiss" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6_U1ZMOiss</a>
     
  2. OSM

    OSM

    retro is for losers! Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=511222:date=Sep 27 2010, 09:14 AM:name=Scarred Sun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarred Sun @ Sep 27 2010, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511222"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, if all you plan to do is be dicks to each other for pages upon pages, <b>I may as well just close this thread.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Why are you even hesitating
     
  3. Mad Echidna

    Mad Echidna

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    I'd like to make one more attempt arguing why the psychics really are one of the most important parts of a Sonic game.

    Okay, Sonic is fast. That's pretty much the whole point. What makes controlling a fun character or vehicle fun? Think about other fast games like the Burnout series. The whole thing that makes Burnout fun for me is once you become used to the controls, you can carry your skills over to the other games. That euphoria of tapping your d-pad or stick just right to avoid traffic is what makes that game fun to come back to again and again.

    Sonic is basically a car. We've all honed our skills over the 4 genesis titles, and get satisfaction from tapping the spindash a certain way, rolling down hills, blasting off at an angle from spindashes, and so on. Classic Sonic is like a classic car. You get behind the wheel and are able to do tricks by your own skill, not by pressing buttons. New Sonic is like a cheap consumer car. There's a bunch of buttons that you have to press to do things that you could do by skill alone in the sports car.

    While driving a Hyundai can be fun, you can't expect to put us behind the wheel of one when we've been driving a Porsche 911 for 10 years and expect us not to notice.
     
  4. jasonchrist

    jasonchrist

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    <!--quoteo(post=511263:date=Sep 27 2010, 05:56 PM:name=Mad Echidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad Echidna @ Sep 27 2010, 05:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511263"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to make one more attempt arguing why the psychics really are one of the most important parts of a Sonic game.

    Okay, Sonic is fast. That's pretty much the whole point. What makes controlling a fun character or vehicle fun? Think about other fast games like the Burnout series. The whole thing that makes Burnout fun for me is once you become used to the controls, you can carry your skills over to the other games. That euphoria of tapping your d-pad or stick just right to avoid traffic is what makes that game fun to come back to again and again.

    Sonic is basically a car. We've all honed our skills over the 4 genesis titles, and get satisfaction from tapping the spindash a certain way, rolling down hills, blasting off at an angle from spindashes, and so on. Classic Sonic is like a classic car. You get behind the wheel and are able to do tricks by your own skill, not by pressing buttons. New Sonic is like a cheap consumer car. There's a bunch of buttons that you have to press to do things that you could do by skill alone in the sports car.

    While driving a Hyundai can be fun, you can't expect to put us behind the wheel of one when we've been driving a Porsche 911 for 10 years and expect us not to notice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Stop complaining! You're making me feel bad about my lack of standards.

    Seriously though, you have made some awesome analogies. Especially this one.

    However, like Sonic 4, Hyundai's are anything but fun... they are complete and utter shit. Cars built without care, attention to detail or any kind of passion.

    While we're talking about analogies, Sonic 4 is like putting a black, Nigerian midget in a tux and expecting us to believe he's James Bond.
     
  5. Mad Echidna

    Mad Echidna

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    <!--quoteo(post=511266:date=Sep 27 2010, 10:05 AM:name=jasonchrist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jasonchrist @ Sep 27 2010, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511266"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=511263:date=Sep 27 2010, 05:56 PM:name=Mad Echidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad Echidna @ Sep 27 2010, 05:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511263"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to make one more attempt arguing why the psychics really are one of the most important parts of a Sonic game.

    Okay, Sonic is fast. That's pretty much the whole point. What makes controlling a fun character or vehicle fun? Think about other fast games like the Burnout series. The whole thing that makes Burnout fun for me is once you become used to the controls, you can carry your skills over to the other games. That euphoria of tapping your d-pad or stick just right to avoid traffic is what makes that game fun to come back to again and again.

    Sonic is basically a car. We've all honed our skills over the 4 genesis titles, and get satisfaction from tapping the spindash a certain way, rolling down hills, blasting off at an angle from spindashes, and so on. Classic Sonic is like a classic car. You get behind the wheel and are able to do tricks by your own skill, not by pressing buttons. New Sonic is like a cheap consumer car. There's a bunch of buttons that you have to press to do things that you could do by skill alone in the sports car.

    While driving a Hyundai can be fun, you can't expect to put us behind the wheel of one when we've been driving a Porsche 911 for 10 years and expect us not to notice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Stop complaining! You're making me feel bad about my lack of standards.

    Seriously though, you have made some awesome analogies. Especially this one.

    However, like Sonic 4, Hyundai's are anything but fun... they are complete and utter shit. Cars built without care, attention to detail or any kind of passion.

    While we're talking about analogies, Sonic 4 is like putting a black, Nigerian midget in a tux and expecting us to believe he's James Bond.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Any car can be fun to drive at high enough speeds (applies both literally and figuratively)
     
  6. Dude

    Dude

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    Guys, the Sega of America guys know all of this already. They know sonic 4 is nothing like the classics. They know it is sonic Rush with checkerboards in the first zone (obviously they don't admit this because it'd get them fired). They've been fighting for a honest-to-goodness classic game since the project started.


    BUT, they're trying to convince Sega of Japan to make something other than what they designed in 1999 in an attempt to make Sonic appeal to the Japanese market. It is obviously a losing battle. The only weapon SoA has in their fight is our 'complaining'.

    What I propose we do, is when the game comes out is to put all of these complaints into as well-written and lucid of a package as possible. Format each issue to be as technically correct as you can make it. Make sure to state how and why certain gameplay principles are bad, and why the classic games did things certain ways and for what reasons. Then send in these design documents. If every member writes their own well thought out document and sends it in separately, you'll effectively be giving them an army behind them that knows what they want.
     
  7. tokumaru

    tokumaru

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    <!--quoteo(post=511263:date=Sep 27 2010, 01:56 PM:name=Mad Echidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad Echidna @ Sep 27 2010, 01:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511263"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to make one more attempt arguing why the psychics really are one of the most important parts of a Sonic game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I like your analogy, it's probably the first one in this thread that is not about food.

    In <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCjxMmZg3QI#t=5m13s" target="_blank">this part of this video</a> you can see how the player can move Sonic sideways with so much precision that he feels more like a cursor than a video game character. There is zero momentum there, he simply "slides" to one side or the other depending on the button you press, and stops just as soon as the button is released. In the classics he'd make arches while hitting badniks like that, which is much more natural and pleasant to look at. And how frustrating is it that he doesn't accelerate when spinning downhill? I, and I'm sure many of you, did that in the classics all the time, it is just a natural way to gain speed.
     
  8. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    Heaven forbid we have more control over Sonic's movement than ever before. Give this a few years w/o playing Sonic 1-3 and you'll notice a difference..... you'll wish you could do the same in those games.

    Old argument is old.
     
  9. Mad Echidna

    Mad Echidna

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    <!--quoteo(post=511280:date=Sep 27 2010, 10:46 AM:name=XCubed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XCubed @ Sep 27 2010, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511280"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heaven forbid we have more control over Sonic's movement than ever before. Give this a few years w/o playing Sonic 1-3 and you'll notice a difference..... you'll wish you could do the same in those games.

    Old argument is old.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes because the way that Sonic has an involuntary spasm in the air and uncurls is totally fine grain control
     
  10. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    On my butt in front of the computer. Where else?
    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    <!--quoteo(post=511280:date=Sep 27 2010, 01:46 PM:name=XCubed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XCubed @ Sep 27 2010, 01:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511280"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heaven forbid we have more control over Sonic's movement than ever before.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Being able to move like that is only half the problem. The other half is the complete and total dead stop which occurs when you stop moving like that. Which also occurs if you're moving at top speed, FYI.

    That's not "more control," it's actually just different control. Unfortunately, this very same momentum <I>thing</I> completely kills the dynamics of pinball—and I'm talking about the actual pinball here, as in the Casino levels—and also makes the role Sonic's speed plays in his platforming an unreliable one.
     
  11. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    <!--quoteo(post=511270:date=Sep 27 2010, 06:23 PM:name=Dude)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dude @ Sep 27 2010, 06:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511270"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What I propose we do, is when the game comes out is to put all of these complaints into as well-written and lucid of a package as possible. Format each issue to be as technically correct as you can make it. Make sure to state how and why certain gameplay principles are bad, and why the classic games did things certain ways and for what reasons. Then send in these design documents. If every member writes their own well thought out document and sends it in separately, you'll effectively be giving them an army behind them that knows what they want.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Are you actually being serious? I can't tell and it's not a dig at you but things like this never work in practice. This game is the way it is because nobody on the development side of things actually cares. If they did the game would have been very different right from the start. The game will be enjoyed by people outside the fanbase and issues will go untouched. It's a shame but I can't see that changing.
     
  12. tokumaru

    tokumaru

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    <!--quoteo(post=511280:date=Sep 27 2010, 02:46 PM:name=XCubed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XCubed @ Sep 27 2010, 02:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511280"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heaven forbid we have more control over Sonic's movement than ever before.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You want absolute control over Sonic? Use the debug mode in the classic games and you can move him anywhere you want with pixel-perfect precision. Sure he won't look like Sonic, but you'll have a lot of other graphics to pick from. But who cares about what he looks like when you have 100% control of his exact position in the level? You'll laugh at gravity, because you'll be able to fly at will. Walls? Why care about them, just go right through.

    Shit, more control is not good. More control like in Sonic 4 is just plain poor physics simulation. If I wanted to immediately move in the direction I press I'd use debug mode, like I said above. I want proper gravity, acceleration, inertia... is that too much to ask for? I swear, I would forgive everything else in this game that is also of dubious quality (art, music, rehashed content, modern design... everything!) if the physics was done right. Out of everything they got wrong in this game, the physics is undoubtedly the most serious one. By far.
     
  13. Slingerland

    Slingerland

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    <!--quoteo(post=511222:date=Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM:name=Scarred Sun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarred Sun @ Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511222"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, if all you plan to do is be dicks to each other for pages upon pages, I may as well just close this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=511222:date=Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM:name=Scarred Sun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarred Sun @ Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511222"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, if all you plan to do is be dicks to each other for pages upon pages, I may as well just close this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=511222:date=Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM:name=Scarred Sun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarred Sun @ Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511222"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I may as well just close this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=511222:date=Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM:name=Scarred Sun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarred Sun @ Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511222"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->close this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
     
  14. Friend of Sonic

    Friend of Sonic

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    I don't think closing the thread is a real solution. It's a faux attempt at adminstering the few bad apples in the group.
     
  15. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    <!--quoteo(post=511309:date=Sep 27 2010, 03:06 PM:name=Friend of Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Friend of Sonic @ Sep 27 2010, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511309"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think closing the thread is a real solution. It's a faux attempt at adminstering the few bad apples in the group.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If this is the case, I'm completely okay with it.

    If you guys have an actual line of discussion, wrap it up now. <b>As soon as the release date for this game is announced, <I>this thread will be locked until the game is released.</I></b> From that point, discussion will resume only on the basis of opinions on the game <I>once it is released</I> and <I>once people have played it.</I> I am so tired of people running their fucking mouths about thoughts and possibilities and I'm sick of it. Like hell you guys will be pulling this shit again with episode 2 when that's announced.
     
  16. <!--quoteo(post=511222:date=Sep 27 2010, 02:14 PM:name=Scarred Sun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarred Sun @ Sep 27 2010, 02:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511222"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, if all you plan to do is be dicks to each other for pages upon pages, I may as well just close this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's all this thread's ever been. E-penis flailing :colbert:

    <!--quoteo(post=511308:date=Sep 27 2010, 08:03 PM:name=Slingerland)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slingerland @ Sep 27 2010, 08:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511308"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=511222:date=Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM:name=Scarred Sun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarred Sun @ Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511222"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, if all you plan to do is be dicks to each other for pages upon pages, I may as well just close this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=511222:date=Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM:name=Scarred Sun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarred Sun @ Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511222"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, if all you plan to do is be dicks to each other for pages upon pages, I may as well just close this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=511222:date=Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM:name=Scarred Sun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarred Sun @ Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511222"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I may as well just close this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=511222:date=Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM:name=Scarred Sun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarred Sun @ Sep 27 2010, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511222"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->close this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Like music to my ears~
     
  17. Mad Echidna

    Mad Echidna

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    <!--quoteo(post=511313:date=Sep 27 2010, 12:13 PM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Sep 27 2010, 12:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511313"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am so tired of people running their fucking mouths about thoughts and possibilities and I'm sick of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    At the risk of sounding cheeky, isn't that what the Sonic scene is founded on? What's the point of having a forum if we're not supposed to share our thoughts and speculation? >_>
     
  18. Slingerland

    Slingerland

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    <!--quoteo(post=511319:date=Sep 27 2010, 02:21 PM:name=Mad Echidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad Echidna @ Sep 27 2010, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511319"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=511313:date=Sep 27 2010, 12:13 PM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Sep 27 2010, 12:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511313"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am so tired of people running their fucking mouths about thoughts and possibilities and I'm sick of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    At the risk of sounding cheeky, isn't that what the Sonic scene is founded on? What's the point of having a forum if we're not supposed to share our thoughts and speculation? >_>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This thread is a special case.
     
  19. <!--quoteo(post=511319:date=Sep 27 2010, 08:21 PM:name=Mad Echidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad Echidna @ Sep 27 2010, 08:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511319"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=511313:date=Sep 27 2010, 12:13 PM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Sep 27 2010, 12:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511313"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am so tired of people running their fucking mouths about thoughts and possibilities and I'm sick of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    At the risk of sounding cheeky, isn't that what the Sonic scene is founded on? What's the point of having a forum if we're not supposed to share our thoughts and speculation? >_>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There's thoughts and speculation. And then there's hitting your head against a wall until it's inside out.
     
  20. Scarred Sun

    Scarred Sun

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    Welp, this.
    <!--quoteo(post=511319:date=Sep 27 2010, 01:21 PM:name=Mad Echidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad Echidna @ Sep 27 2010, 01:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511319"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=511313:date=Sep 27 2010, 12:13 PM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Sep 27 2010, 12:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=511313"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am so tired of people running their fucking mouths about thoughts and possibilities and I'm sick of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    At the risk of sounding cheeky, isn't that what the Sonic scene is founded on? What's the point of having a forum if we're not supposed to share our thoughts and speculation? >_>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Let me blunt.

    You've said your piece. Some of you have literally said your piece more than 500 times in this topic. You talk in circles, you have baseless speculation, you snipe at each other, you think he who talks the most wins, you go off-topic for pages on end, and then you have the audacity to whine about not getting to continue this?

    The whole idea behind Sonic Retro is that there would be a mature area where people could actually talk like adults about Sonic and Sega video games and not resort to the level of discussion held on the Sega forums or other Sonic websites, but there are so many of you intent on dragging discussion down to an eight-year-old mentality that it sickens not only me but the rest of the staff. We're trying to raise the bar here and there's a crowd of you who love knocking it down because you think that will make you insightful or witty or popular or something and all it does is make you horribly repellent.

    This immaturity WILL not stand. We've tried suspending, we've tried being nice, we've tried pointing out specifics—and all of these normal moderation tactics have failed.

    Closing the thread seems to be the only way to keep some of you from spewing verbal vomit all over this forum. From here on out, this thread will only be open to post updates from a few select people.
     
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