The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread

I for one am not underestimating the value of tight pinball physics. Rather, I more than support it. However I object to forcing it down Aaron's throat so he can pester DIMPs with a useless request to stop everything, start over, and still release it in time for Christmas.

If that's what you're going for, though, I don't think kicking and screaming about it more will change anything at this point.

Damn, seriously hope he reads my last post. Worked hard on it. Harder than I usually would. It's not even full of squicky emotional turmoil or anything, it's just arguments about the technical potential of the game..

 

It's probably not the only way, but that sure would be the logical way to start a good game. It's beyond me why SEGA would consider and actually use anything else for a game that's supposed to be a direct sequel to the classics.

I'm just talking out of personal experience here. I've tried every main Sonic game after the classics and every single one of them failed to provide me what I consider to be authentic fun. I didn't even have the motivation to finish most of them. Out of experience, I learned to identify what I like and what I don't like about Sonic games, and so far Sonic 4 has everything that's on the "bad" list.

The physics looks remarkably similar to Rush's, which caused me to give up on that game in the first act of the second zone. Sonic 4 actually appears to be better than Rush (the lack of a boost button is already a big advantage), so it might still be fun somehow, but it will for sure not be the classic, momentum-based game we were promised.

EDIT: The physics will be undeniably flawed if the final behaves mostly like the beta gameplay we've seen so far. I can't remember of a single video of SHZ where the player didn't wall-walk at least once. It happens in - every - single - video -, regardless of who is playing.

I honestly don't expect anything out of Sonic 4 anymore, and I have no hopes of them fixing anything significant until the release. I already accepted that this game will be just yet another shadow (no pun intended) of what Sonic used to be. Also, I'm sure Aaron/Ruby is a nice guy and has good intentions, but in the end it's always SOJ that calls the shots, and I doubt that what he or anyone else outside of Japan has to say will ever make a difference to them.

 

Ruby, listen to this guy! He knows what he's talking about! Are you reading this DIMPS?

 

I can't fault you for being honest as well as level-headed, but way to reach for the stars, tokumaru.

Don't mind me. You're all right.

@VB.NET: Thanks. I have my moments. Just hope it goes places.

I wouldn't have really been that conscious of it if it weren't for the Retro community though.

 

This is one thing that bugs me.

The physics in the New! Super Mario Bros. games (especially the Wii game) are very different from Bros 3 and World, they're very floaty. Yet, nobody really cares about the physics changes in those games. Yet, a lot of people demand Sonic 4 to have 1:1 physics to the classics. I honestly think that they DON'T need to be 1:1 for it to be a fun game. They just need to make the physics work similar to pinball physics really, drop fast and roll fast down hills (which, unfortunately, Sonic 4 doesn't do).

Although I think we can all agree that the classic Sonic games (1-3&K) have the tightest physics in any platformer.

 

Same, uncurling never bothered me in Rush until I joined Retro. I think Retro may be converting people into Sonic haters! (Kidding).

 

Two people have said it. Now you have to do it

 

Be sarcastic all you like, we're trying to give Ruby constructive criticism for the benefit of the game.

 

Physics never was the highlight in that series. Mario always had standard, uninteresting video game physics, but Sonic was a real innovator in that area.

I also don't think it has to be 1:1, there are good Sonic games that play different but are still good: some of the SMS/GG games, Pocket Adventure, Advance 1... But when SEGA decided to continue S3K, the logical thing to do would be to base the gameplay on that game, not on the latest failed attempt at a good 2D game. This is why I said 1:1 physics isn't the only way to make a good game, but would sure be a good place to start.

And it will most likely remain like this in the final. The problem with Sonic 4 is not that the physics isn't exactly like the classics, it's the fact that's it's so different to the point where it's broken in several places. The wall-walking and the acceleration issues are abominations, not innocent differences.

 

Sorry for derailing the topic a little (and taking so long to reply. I dozed off lol.) but I just wanted to make a point that Brawl (and MK 4 and X7, but mostly Brawl) isn't a great example in your argument, if you know the series and the community well.

The way I see it, Super Smash Bros. is very similar to Sonic, despite SSB fans being pummeled from horrible games left and right each year (at least imo, they were horrible). Super Smash Bros. Melee was released in 2001, and since then, people were discovering fighting techniques, reaching high lengths of technicality, and broadening the meta game. Generally (and unfortunately), people see SSB as a casual party game since it's not a traditional fighter like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat, but to the hardcore fans, it's much, much more than that if played competitively, and takes a great amount of skill and dedication to at least become decent in Smash.

Eventually, people grew tired and were waiting for a sequel to it's predecessor. Finally, during the reveal of Brawl during E3, and the time of Brawl's "Smash Dojo" website updates (Much like the times of the Project Needlemouse's art contest/ trivia days), everyone was anticipating for Brawl's release, because in the Smash competitive community( much like the Sonic Retro community in terms of Sonic 4 being a true sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles), they expected Brawl to be a true successor to Melee.

Sadly, when Brawl came out, even though it was seemingly perfect to the casual eye( just like the old nostalgic Sonic fans/gamers that don't know/ understand in depth of Sonic's momentum based game play/pinball physics and loves the linear, hold boost to win, thousand friends with terrible story and gimmicky era of Sonic), for example, the new online play, the "Sub-Space Emissary" ( story/ adventure mode) the music, and its many features, to the hardcore fans, this was all a sugarcoat for the real problem. The Multiplayer (Sonic 4's sugarcoating would be the nostalgia cash in covering up for the physics and classic gameplay). The game play severely lacked any sense of depth towards a fighter franchise, despite the series being played competitively since SSB64, introduced a more broken tier list, prevent a wider character selection, catered to casual gamers and narrowed the learning curve so much, that anyone can become pro in a matter of days, and was basically a big "FUCK YOU" to the hardcore/competitive smash community from Sakurai, the man behind Brawl (just like how Sonic 4 EP 1 is apparently shaping up to be at this moment).
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TLDR

Basically Sonic 4 is experiencing what Brawl already went though. Sonic 4's physic complaints is to Brawl physic complaints in terms of floaty-ness and glitchy/ sporadic movements. Sonic's uncurling is to Brawl's tripping, both really stupid additions that just hinders game play for no reason. The direction to both games are geared to the wrong audience that only divides the community even more so than before. And finally, they try to sugarcoat with features to hide the true main problem with the games.

...Just a little rant I felt I had to express, since I'm a Smasher myself

 

Interesting. I'd heard slices of arguments about how Brawl was inferior to Melee, but I never really got into it. Cool story bro.

Also, in case anyone missed it in my awesome wall of text: http://www.hotbloodedgaming.com/2010/09/06...-1-impressions/

Not everybody had shining impressions of the game. Just thought it'd be worth putting on the table.

 

I wasn't. I really want the uncurling thing changed. I come off as sarcastic a lot.

I'm just tired and wow that was a lot of words

(the other person I was referring to was me, who said something about uncurling off ramps)

 

Because letting Sonic Colors sell on it's own while DIMPS takes more time into fixing Sonic 4 and releasing it in 2011 is a totally bad idea, right?

 

<!--quoteo(post=503175:date=Sep 8 2010, 11:33 PM:name=::CMG (UTOPIA):--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (::CMG (UTOPIA):: @ Sep 8 2010, 11:33 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Because letting Sonic Colors sell on it's own while DIMPS takes more time into fixing Sonic 4 and releasing it in 2011 is a totally bad idea, right?
[/QUOTE]
Financially? Yes. Yes it is.

 

As far as tourneyfags go, I figured out they expected Sakurai to remove all the items and turn all the stages into Final Destination.
Boo to the freakin' hoo.
The truth is SSB was always a party game, and Nintendo never even thought otherwise. In fact, to make SSBM into a DEEP FIGHTAN GAME, the "hardcore fanbase" had to strip most of the game's content out of the picture. :v:

(sorry 'bout the offtopic)

Sonic 4 is rather the opposite of SSB, since the hardk0ar gameplay of SSB was an unintended side-effect of the design, and it just happened that the new iteration made it more difficult. Sonic WAS a game that had its roots in carefully-designed, momentum-based platforming that rewarded skill with speed, gradually changed into a runrunrunfest where you're propelled forward constantly by the levels themselves.

 

Thank you Glad you actually read my rant lol.

Super smash bros. is very similar to Sonic. Right down to the divided communities in my eyes (Even though we definitely don't argue as much lol...Oh and now we have hackers making Brawl into melee 2.0. which is called "Project M" right now, which will hopefully bring both brawl and melee communities together. Maybe Retro should come up with a project similar to that for Old age and New age Sonic communities )

We (well most level headed smashers, anyway) don't truly think Brawl is a really bad game, just when you see it as a spiritual successor and competitive fighter, like how if you see Sonic 4 as an evolution to Sonic 3&k, it becomes more of a bad game than it actually is. It can still be fun on its own accord, despite it not being what we longed for for years. It's just the randoms who truly ruin the experience in both games.

Lol ok, I'm done with the whole super smash bros derailing topic thing, don't shoot me =)

 

You're completely stretching it and you are a fool if you think they're anything alike.

 

Sorry, it was partly my fault too. I shouldn't have assumed.

What Sonic 4 needs to build up hype again is a commercial like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9j-9EdIze4...feature=related :specialed: