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The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Scarred Sun, Apr 7, 2010.

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  1. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    Knuckles Chaotix's level select was a hub world where you still had control. Helped retain some of the flow that did.

    Not to mention, Knuckles Chaotix is so different from the main Sonic games that it's hardly worth using it in an argument.
     
  2. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    I'm not sure I follow you here man. You have control over the level select in Sonic 4?

    Anywho, count me in the camp who honestly believes the game will NOT force you to go to the level select screen every time. I think the game is going to have a normal zone progression.
     
  3. Ritz

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    The difference there being that none of those games were blatant retreads of past titles. Or, y'know, broken. I'd give Sonic 4 a chance if it had something new to offer.

    Y'hm.

    And so long as we're talking about Chaotix, that game was nothing at all like its predecessors and it was in dire need of improvement, yet I still loved it for what it was and what it aspired to be. Sonic 4 Episode 1 has no aspirations to speak of. I'd much sooner take something fresh and broken over something trite and broken. Don't tell me I can't be flexible!

    EDIT: Goddammit, thread broke my sig. gj guys
     
  4. Cooljerk

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    I could list my reasons why I believe KC was a spiritual sequel to Sonic CD, but I think this would be getting the thread too far off topic.
     
  5. MarkoMan

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    Knux's Chaotix was worse.
    Level Select was random. Unless I'm missing something.
     
  6. Indigo Rush

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    What I would like to know is:

    After the entire saga of Sonic 4 is released and out to the public, what's next for 2D Sonic on consoles? Will we get a similar deal, but called Sonic 5? I know it's not possible for anyone to answer that as of now, but after this whole fiasco with the physics issues, and now that the internal development team is aware of the Classic Physics Guide, can we expect a more solid and classic Sonic game after Sonic 4 is completed?

    Another thought I had, and this is directed to Ruby, is it possible that the physics could receive even greater improvement for episode 2, and a patch of sorts released for episode 1 with physics of the same accuracy as episode 2 and so on? I know you are all listening to feedback for future episodes, but it would make the saga inconsistent from one episode to the next without said patch.

    360 and PS3 versions could easily get a patch, SEGA could offer a free redownload for the Wii version, and the iPhone version just gets an app update... does that sound doable...? I'm just curious here. I'd love to see this happen.

    Regardless, Sonic 4 still looks fun and I'm sure I'll enjoy it. But man, that wall standing is grinding my bones in all the wrong ways! D:
     
  7. Ritz

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    Knuckles Chaotix bears more in common with SCD over any other game in the series only by virtue of its soundtrack, art direction and some assorted oddities. Hence, you could get away with calling it a spiritual successor, but a sequel it is not. Sonic CD is still a Sonic game. Knuckles Chaotix is a monster.

    And I like how we're bombarding Ruby with inane questions now more than ever when we've just reached the point of no return. You know he can't answer any of this shit.
     
  8. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    I may be mistaken, but I thought Knuckles Chaotix had an interactive hub world. Maybe I'm remembering things wrong.

    And I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought Chaotix was horrendous. I figured that was another one of Sega's lost gems as far as Retro was concerned.
     
  9. Ritz

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    It did have a hub, and I was using the term "monster" affectionately (if my other post hadn't made that clear!), because honestly, that's what it was. Too many ideas, too many colors, too many acts per zone- it had an excess of everything. Even the sound test was just way too fucking much. It took everything about Sonic except for Sonic and turned the entire paradigm on its head. It was glorious.

    It's the series' gravest tragedy, exceeding even Sonic X-treme's entire development span. The presentation was top notch, the characters were great and their abilities had so much untapped potential, everything about the game was nigh-flawless. Y'know, besides the primary gimmick being a huge mistake, the game playing like shit and the level designs being a total bust. I'd love nothing more than to see the game polished to the level it so deserved. If they never brought Sonic back and Chaotix wound up being the bedrock upon which the entire series would evolve, I wouldn't have complained in the slightest. Chaotix was Sonic 4 as I truly imagined it.

    And now look at the steaming cow patty they're trying to pass off in its stead. The audacity of it all!
     
  10. Cooljerk

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    I'm pretty sure anybody who has actually played KC hates it. Don't quote me on that, though.

    I cannot express the disappointment I felt upon getting KC. I bought it on release date. "THIS IS IT," I remember thinking, "THIS IS WHY I BOUGHT A 32X! THE INEVITABLE SONIC GAME HAS FINALLY COME!"

    Oh man. Such a let down. I would say it was more of a let down than any, ANY sonic game before or since. Even 06. Because prior to chaotix, every single console sonic game had been fucking excellent.

    It was... well, shocking.
     
  11. Tweaker

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    Personally, I loved Chaotix. It's wildly different from the normal formula, but it still managed to be fun and enjoyable in its own right.

    Not like that's the topic at hand, but still.
     
  12. Ruby, you sure posted a ton in this thread. Cool! :) While I have mixed opinions about your reasonings, I respect ya, man. Just wish Sonic Team would stop bullshitting us. And that's what this Sonic 4 feels like. It's going to be a fun game, but it feels like such bullshit. I remember Sega being one of the strongest creative force ever in the world, Nintendo's counterpart. Sega would go out on a limb and try edgy, interesting stuff. But there's just something so hollow about Sega right now. Yeah, that Mushroom Hill Zone pre-rendered thing was cool, but it was fake. The thing is, a major developer could make something like that a reality. A playable reality.

    But this whole thing, Sonic 4, feels likes a low end, low risk endeavor. Much like Sega's new direction in digital distribution (which can definitely yield solid offerings, no one can comment either way for sure). But Sonic 4 just should not be that... the way we all love traditional Sonic 2D, we have all literally been holding our collective load for a decade and a half. And now Sega is trying to romance us again, and it feels so nice and right. But instead of being treated to a nice movie, a steakhouse dinner and cuddling on the couch in front of the fireplace, we're getting some selections off of the dollar menu at McDonalds and getting fucked for five minutes in a motel. The latter isn't SO bad, but the former would feel so good.

    Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm bitching at you, Ruby. And for the record, things are looking better for Sega in my opinion, and I'm sure it's due to people like you.
     
  13. Not liking the sound of that, is that Xbox 360 Bias again in the industry? Is the PS3 going to be a shitty port just like Bayonetta? Should we expect Sub-HD graphics on the PS3 with 30fps instead of 1080p and 60fps that the Xbox 360 can do?
     
  14. Cooljerk

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    This'll be my last post on Chaotix, I swear!

    I liked everything about Chaotix except the actual game. Loved the visuals, they were hyper trippy. Loved the music, some of the best in the series. Loved the bosses, loved the level themes, loved everything... except the game. The levels themselves just didn't play into the series pinball strengths, which I recognize wasn't the purpose of KC. KC wasn't trying to be a pinball platformer like Sonic, it was trying to be something else, which I can respect. The problem I have is that what it was, just wasn't fun to play IMO. The levels were designed to take advantage of the rubber band physics, but I just could never find a way to have any fun with them. To me, the gimmick of KC felt sloppy and half baked. Where as the gimmick of previous sonic games, ESPECIALLY sonic CD, felt solid and very fun. In other sonic games, I felt very much in control. In KC... not so much.

    Also, and this is a personal problem, but I find myself getting lost in Speed Slider Zone. Multiple times, in multiple acts. That is a huge, huge no-no for me. I should never get lost in a sonic game, I should never have to wonder where to go next.

    I'd love for someone with more time and knowledge than I to take KC and turn it into a proper, normal sonic game. Because everything is there for what I'd consider to be a stellar game... except the actual game.

    And with that, back to sonic 4...

    No, what he means is that the Xbox 360 version won't have any tilt at all BY DEFAULT. This is because the Xbox 360 version lacks a motion sensitive controller. It CANNOT have tilt.

    The 3 console versions of the game will be identical, I'm sure. Except for tilt, which is a big deal to me specifically because I have a USB Saturn pad, and only the PS3 recognizes it (it's an undocumented feature on the PS3, any HID controller will work).
     
  15. Chimpo

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    Why are you dragging poor old Sonic Team into this?
     
  16. serpx

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    After how this decade has been, the fact that you're talking and being open to this community is something I wish more people could respect. The fact that you're striving to have SEGA implement even one idea from us is something I wish people could respect. Naturally, I am sure a lot of veterans will be unhappy at the ordeal with the physics, even I'm disappointed, however, what I do appreciate is that you guys 1) Delayed the game. 2) Have implemented a few changes that people here disliked (Casino Street Act 2, Labyrinth Act 2). 3) Are striving to make the game FUN.

    Yes, the game is called Sonic 4, but fuck, how many people are blind from how shitty this decade has been? Title with high-expectations or not, if this game is actually FUN, I'll at least be a happy man. A FUN Sonic game, wow, please provide that. At this point, I could careless if the physics is 1:1 with the classics, as long as the game is FUN to play.

    Thanks for your hard effort. Look forward to the game's release, and episode 2.
     
  17. I would think that they were the one who chose to delegate Sonic 4 to Dimps. I love Sonic Pocket Adventure to death, but aside from that, there's nothing that screams to me that they should be responsible for creating Sonic 4.
     
  18. MegaDash

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    I couldn't complete the tutorial for Chaotix. lol physics. Still a charming game though.

    Yeah yeah Sonic is a cool guy, Sonic 4 Episode 1 won't be perfect, blah blah blah whatever. Aaron, all I care to know right now is whether or not there's a Wii demo coming our way. It seems like it's a given for the HD consoles, but I'm left uncertain about the Wii. I'd really like to try before I buy—like Rocket Knight!

    Well, a few things more actually. I understand that it's too far along in development to conceive of retooling the entire game starting with a physics overhaul. Granted. Frankly, if I suddenly had my way with DIMPs, I wouldn't force them through such an unnecessary ordeal under their current constraints. However, fixing the uncurling problem should not only not take nearly as much work, but also solve a lot of problems people would have with this game not feeling like a classic Sonic game.

    Removing the uncurling-off-of-ramps-and-bumpers* mechanic 1) doesn't negate or interfere with the homing attack, so the game's fundamental design is not threatened and people may still use it as they please; 2) doesn't leave Sonic otherwise prone to touch-damage in mid-air (see 1:23); and 3) it makes Sonic look and feel much more classic. Yes, people will still bitch that the homing attack is even in the game or that the physics and level design are wrong, but at least you'll have satisfied a large amount of old school gamers without suggesting development hell.

    Changing that one aspect can effectively allow for two distinct, but interchangeable and non-mutually-exclusive play styles in one fell swoop: classic bounce-on-enemies-using-momentum-style gameplay and modern-press-jump-to-homing-attack-string-of-aerial-enemies. It's simply much better than Sonic being vulnerable in mid-air and looking incredibly silly, to put it in very mild terms, and I doubt it involves much more than some strict rewriting of a few code lines. Just saying, man. It'd make a lot of people happy to start off, whether it be right now or when the game releases and people play it. It's win-win in lieu of a presently impossible engine and design overhaul that's better reserved either for future episodes or future 2D Sonic projects in general.

    The only other things I recommend range from the aesthetically petty (make Sonic swing his arms around and turn his head more when he's going from standing to walking to running) to the more technical (make Sonic feel like he has dynamic momentum apart from bumpers and boosters).

    Thanks again for reading, Ruby. Regardless of what happens, you've gone above and beyond the call of duty. My congrats to you; and here's some more food for thought.

    *I'm well aware than Sonic has always been prone in midair upon hitting a bumper ever since the Genesis days, but given the aforementioned Youtube clip at 1:23, being curled up while in midair is way better than getting nailed like that. My only alternative recommendation to the whole uncurling issue is to have a button assigned to curling in mid-air. Hell, where the homing attack and air dash is just pressing Jump a second time (a or b, I'm not sure which), the spare button that's unused could just as well be for both uncurling AND the insta-shield. Man, I'm a genius. Somebody give me a blank check.
     
  19. I think some of you underestimate how important the physics is. IIRC, the game that started it all was built around the pinball physics. The blue hedgehog, the golden rings and the chaos emeralds were just excuses to turn the idea of a pinball physics engine into a game. Those concepts are interesting, yes, but they are not the core of a true Sonic game, the physics is. That gameplay is what makes a Sonic game, and the lack of it is the reason no Sonic game in the past few years has been remarkable like the classics.
     
  20. serpx

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    So, does the physics have to be a 1:1 copy of the classics in order for it to be "remarkable like the classics" ? If, hypothetically, Sonic 4 actually ends up fun, are the physics still flawed because they aren't a 1:1 copy of the classics?
     
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