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The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Scarred Sun, Apr 7, 2010.

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  1. jasonchrist

    jasonchrist

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    <!--quoteo(post=502750:date=Sep 8 2010, 09:20 PM:name=Dude)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dude @ Sep 8 2010, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502750">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=502728:date=Sep 8 2010, 03:58 PM:name=RubyEclipse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RubyEclipse @ Sep 8 2010, 03:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502728">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Physics in general are not going to see too many massive changes, though know that I did push months ago to see how much would be possible. The biggest hurdle here was the level design, and the many ways that even small physics changes require updating almost every stage. It is never as easy as many might think, but I did ask and made sure it was brought to certain people's attention.

    In addition to the big stuff, and though physics won't be changed to the extent I know some people here would like, we have thrown in a number of small but important updates to other minor parts of the game. They are things that I doubt most reviewers will ever take note of, but that you guys as fans will hopefully appreciate. Some of these will also be revealed in our next S4 Update blog coming this month.

    Though it's impossible to fulfill every request,I hope that the changes we have made will prove that our claims to have been listening are founded solidly, and that while we can't make every single person happy, we are doing what we can to make the game more enjoyable for everyone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So are we ever getting a sonic game ever again? Or should we stop waiting? Personally I think you might be able to save this sinking ship if the engine was completely overhauled for episode 2 but even that is a stretch. This is not an attack against you in particular because I know you're pretty much powerless to do anything about it, but if SEGA is 'listening to the fans' and physics/uncurling/etc was the major complaint, and nothing is being done about this how is that listening at all?

    Also, you need someone new to run the franchise, your current game designer/project manager is running things into the ground.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Or here's an even better idea. Remove the number 4 that clearly doesn't belong there. It would involve less work for Sega, the people who like the look of it still get to play it, and those of us with actual standards will still have hope of a REAL sequel by someone who knows what they're doing. That way everybody wins!
     
  2. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    <!--quoteo(post=502746:date=Sep 8 2010, 09:15 PM:name=RubyEclipse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RubyEclipse @ Sep 8 2010, 09:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502746">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=502736:date=Sep 8 2010, 01:07 PM:name=RGamer2009)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RGamer2009 @ Sep 8 2010, 01:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502736">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He didn't say it wasn't going to happen. He said it wouldn't be to the extent we want. That doesn't rule them out completely.

    As long as the changes make it that much closer to the original Mega Drive titles... I'm good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    My suggestion would be to expect few to no physics changes, so that if or when you do notice any minor updates in the final game, you'll appreciate them. I think this is better than people really expecting them to change too much, and conversely expecting something different than they get when they download it. Keeping expectations realistic is the key.

    As to the Iizuka-san quote, what were you looking for in a response? It sounds like his personal opinion to me, so there's not too much room for me to comment further. :)
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Few physics changes? That's where the games biggest fault lie. Something like this is utterly unacceptable really.
    [​IMG]

    It makes sense that changing some physics would call for a change in level design. If Sonic didn't lose all of his momentum in mid-air, he'd go flying in Bubbles all the time. So they'd have to be moved, and then the place wher eyou're supposed to land would have to be changed... it's a shame because he shouldn't stop in the first place. Oh well.

    Many thanks to you Ruby, and your colleagues, for trying so hard and keeping in touch with us. You're somewhat very awesome for that. Now we'll just have to wait for the E1 release then to see what's changed in E2.
     
  3. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    First off if Dimps wanted to use old code to make the game off of, why didn't they just use the Sonic Advance 1 physics? I played that game the other day, and while the physics aren't totally right, it's not nearly as offensive as the Sonic Rush engine. Sonic can't duck on slopes as easily, Sonic doesn't uncurl when he goes off an edge, that whole bounce off of enemies and monitors and return to the hight you started at, and the spin dash, while not perfect, at least worked.

    My main point of this post is that seriously how would changing things like unrolling off a slope, not having to hold a direction else face losing momentum, and increasing the power of the spin dash break the current level design?
     
  4. <!--quoteo(post=502746:date=Sep 8 2010, 04:15 PM:name=RubyEclipse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RubyEclipse @ Sep 8 2010, 04:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502746">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=502736:date=Sep 8 2010, 01:07 PM:name=RGamer2009)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RGamer2009 @ Sep 8 2010, 01:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502736">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He didn't say it wasn't going to happen. He said it wouldn't be to the extent we want. That doesn't rule them out completely.

    As long as the changes make it that much closer to the original Mega Drive titles... I'm good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    My suggestion would be to expect few to no physics changes, so that if or when you do notice any minor updates in the final game, you'll appreciate them. I think this is better than people really expecting them to change too much, and conversely expecting something different than they get when they download it. Keeping expectations realistic is the key.

    As to the Iizuka-san quote, what were you looking for in a response? It sounds like his personal opinion to me, so there's not too much room for me to comment further. :)
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, thats not what I'm getting at.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->DC: Back when Sonic 4 was still known as Project Needlemouse, Sega stated the game would have speed would not be found by hitting a boost button, but rather through momentum. The opposite of this appeared at E3, where the levels (though a work in progress) contained a good number of artificial boosts. Is creating an appropriate sense of speed a major challenge for the development team?

    TI: I think there were an misunderstanding here, what I tried to say was classic Sonic series would not use those actions that were featured in ‘Sonic Rush’ series and which is for example activating boost by charging up the gauge and push button… I believe instant execrations by gimmicks like booster are important elements to keep the better game pacing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    We don't WANT Speed Boosters AT ALL, as they don't demonstrate momentum. Iizuka thinks they are "important". Not good.

    But on the other hand, I saw this at the Sega Forum...
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Originally Posted by RubyEclipse<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Originally Posted by BaronGrackle
    Original poster: They haven't forgotten about S3&K. The giant ring special stages are gone, but the star post bonus stages are still around.

    The elemental shields and Insta-shield are gone, but that was just a decision SEGA made. The classic shield does remind us of the simplicity of Sonic 1 and Sonic 2, while the removal of the insta-shield makes room for garbage that no one asked for or wanted such as the homing attack and air dash.

    Some of the badniks are from those games, as well. There's Batbot, a star from Carnival Night Zone. And there's Bubbles... who was completely ruined to be reshaped as a homing attack platform. But he's still there.

    If you go to the Sonic 4 official site and click on the Intro story, you will find background information about Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic 3, and Sonic & Knuckles. So if anything, it's Sonic CD that's getting ignored.

    Even if they did destroy the continuity of Sonic & Knuckles.

    [​IMG]

    <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3_%...gy_and_endings" target="_blank">http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3_%...gy_and_endings</a>

    It's something they could fix in almost literally a minute. But they won't. Because it's not important.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think it's important. But it's not as easy a change as it seems. I will have time to really look at this and push to verify 'canon' (even as loose as the term may be considering the later games in the Sonic series) when we get past the launch of PSP2 and Valkyria Chronicles craziness cools down a little.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So the webpage may be updated soon?! YES, you have no idea how long thats bugged me, insignificant or not. :)
     
  5. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    <!--quoteo(post=502733:date=Sep 8 2010, 04:04 PM:name=RubyEclipse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RubyEclipse @ Sep 8 2010, 04:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502733">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Most are pretty minor, to that point that I don't think it really calls for updating on the website.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    To clarify, is this basically a sugar-coated "no" or do you really not see the value in it? Because I'd certainly be interested in hearing any changes to the soundtrack, be it minor or major. I'm sure I'm not the only one, either.

    <!--quoteo(post=502761:date=Sep 8 2010, 04:37 PM:name=RGamer2009)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RGamer2009 @ Sep 8 2010, 04:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502761">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Please stop speaking for everyone. You're not this community's representative; I did not hire you and neither did anyone else.
     
  6. dsrb

    dsrb

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    <!--quoteo(post=502761:date=Sep 8 2010, 09:37 PM:name=RGamer2009)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RGamer2009 @ Sep 8 2010, 09:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502761">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I saw this at the Sega Forum...
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Originally Posted by BaronGrackle
    the star post bonus stages are still around<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->wut
     
  7. OSM

    OSM

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    Thanks for posting Ruby. Good to know this game is still a piece of shit. :)
     
  8. Ben Laserlove

    Ben Laserlove

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    <!--quoteo(post=502766:date=Sep 8 2010, 10:47 PM:name=Demi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Demi @ Sep 8 2010, 10:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502766">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->374 pages, 2nd Sonic 4 topic, still same the old boring bitching and moaning about the exact same things from the first pages.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And it gets worse when our only contact to SEGA comes posting. Whatever the actual quality of S4, could you guys atleast try to reply with outblurting URP GAEM SUCKS TRASH IT to a PR person that's not so powerful in that regard? Aren't we more interested in the smaller things, like when the blog/website is getting updated and such?
     
  9. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    <!--quoteo(post=502762:date=Sep 8 2010, 09:41 PM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Sep 8 2010, 09:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502762">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=502733:date=Sep 8 2010, 04:04 PM:name=RubyEclipse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RubyEclipse @ Sep 8 2010, 04:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502733">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Most are pretty minor, to that point that I don't think it really calls for updating on the website.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    To clarify, is this basically a sugar-coated "no" or do you really not see the value in it? Because I'd certainly be interested in hearing any changes to the soundtrack, be it minor or major. I'm sure I'm not the only one, either.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You most certainly are not. Any changes to the soundtrack are interesting.
     
  10. Brad

    Brad

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    Welp. Ruby just confirmed Sonic the Spiderhog 4, now with added sticking to sides of loops and walls.
    I'm guessing Sonic will still jump on the moon... and rolling will remain useless... and I'll have to spam homing on Bubbles and not manually bounce... and the spin-dash will still remain almost useless.
    Trust towards SEGA extreme minus, I hate Iizuka more than I already did - and I doubt I'll be buying this "sequel" unless it's around £5.00 maximum.

    Thanks SEGA & Sonic Team. It's glad to know you still care about us. ¬¬
     
  11. OSM

    OSM

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    <!--quoteo(post=502769:date=Sep 8 2010, 04:53 PM:name=Ben Laserlove)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ben Laserlove @ Sep 8 2010, 04:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502769">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aren't we more interested in the smaller things, like when the blog/website is getting updated and such?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No. Honestly, who gives a shit about those updates anymore?
    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=RubyEclipse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RubyEclipse)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My suggestion would be to expect few to no physics changes, so that if or when you do notice any minor updates in the final game, you'll appreciate them. I think this is better than people really expecting them to change too much, and conversely expecting something different than they get when they download it. Keeping expectations realistic is the key.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Then what the fuck was the point of delaying the game if they weren't going to do anything? I already said I wasn't going to buy or play this game, but I am seriously sick and tired of the lies. Tell SEGA this is NOT how you treat your fan base, this whole experience has been a complete and utter disaster with the most annoying controversy of drama ever.

    Also, please, tell SEGA to fire Iizuka. Please.

    EDIT: I also want to stress I absolutely have no grief or animosity toward you Ruby. You're an alright guy, you're just doing your job.
     
  12. glem3

    glem3

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    I'm sorry but, despite this most likely meaning there will be NO physics changes, isn't the main physics problem just the wall sticking? And that would be a relatively "minor" change. The physics really didn't need much work after that, the rest of the issues (stopping when letting go of the D pad and uncurling) can be considered unrelated.

    Obviously it sucks that the physics aren't changing, but if they do the wall sticking wouldn't be too big of a thing to fix.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then what the fuck was the point of delaying the game if they weren't going to do anything? I already said I wasn't going to buy or play this game, but I am seriously sick and tired of the lies. This is NOT how you treat your fanbase.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Oh, so suddenly, not changing the physics is not doing anything? New LLZ act 2, new level design, new and updated music, and new running animation isn't anything? Sorry, I almost forgot that the only thing that matters is what you care about. And don't be so rude to ruby, he's just delivering the news, he has very little say in anything.
     
  13. Guys, if they haven't fixed the physics for Episode 1 they are surely not fixing it for Episode 2... They are not gonna make episodes of the same game play differently! Wake up! The best we can expect of Episode 2 is more original content and less rehash, but with this gameplay I don't think I even care. SEGA apparently doesn't care either, as they're simply letting DIMPS do whatever they want with their franchise.
     
  14. Phos

    Phos

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    <!--quoteo(post=502746:date=Sep 8 2010, 03:15 PM:name=RubyEclipse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RubyEclipse @ Sep 8 2010, 03:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502746">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=502736:date=Sep 8 2010, 01:07 PM:name=RGamer2009)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RGamer2009 @ Sep 8 2010, 01:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502736">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He didn't say it wasn't going to happen. He said it wouldn't be to the extent we want. That doesn't rule them out completely.

    As long as the changes make it that much closer to the original Mega Drive titles... I'm good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    My suggestion would be to expect few to no physics changes, so that if or when you do notice any minor updates in the final game, you'll appreciate them. I think this is better than people really expecting them to change too much, and conversely expecting something different than they get when they download it. Keeping expectations realistic is the key.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is pretty hilarious, we have a PR guy from a video game company telling people to not get excited about their game.

    This reminds me of the time this guy working at a hardware store talked me out of buying a multimeter.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sorry but, despite this most likely meaning there will be NO physics changes, isn't the main physics problem just the wall sticking?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Loosing all momentum upon releasing the D-pad in the air, rolling having the same behavior regardless of angle, airborne momentum being translated into ground momentum in strange ways, not bouncing off enemies correctly, those kinds of things.
     
  15. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    Ruby, I do not envy your job at all :v:

    Question about the console versions of Sonic 4 (specifically the wii and PS3 versions) - will they be 100% playable without motion controls? I know the infamous mine cart stages are gone, but can you play the special stages without using tilt? As in, can I completely play the game, interacting with absolutely everything, without ever having to use tilt?

    This sounds like an odd request, but there is significant meaning behind it - I have a Sega Saturn USB controller that I love to use with my PS3, and playing Sonic 4 with that baby is going to get my nostalgia juices flowing so hard. It is without a doubt the way I'll be playing Sonic 4 on my first go-through, so I need to know if there will be an option to turn off tilt completely. By the same stroke, is there any way you could map the non-tilt segments to the d-pad rather than the shoulder buttons? The sega saturn pad maps the shoulder buttons oddly (I.e. L is L1, and R is L2, Z is R1 and C is R2).
     
  16. dsrb

    dsrb

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    <!--quoteo(post=502769:date=Sep 8 2010, 09:53 PM:name=Ben Laserlove)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ben Laserlove @ Sep 8 2010, 09:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502769">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=502766:date=Sep 8 2010, 10:47 PM:name=Demi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Demi @ Sep 8 2010, 10:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502766">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->374 pages, 2nd Sonic 4 topic, still same the old boring bitching and moaning about the exact same things from the first pages.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And it gets worse when our only contact to SEGA comes posting. Whatever the actual quality of S4, could you guys atleast try to reply with outblurting URP GAEM SUCKS TRASH IT to a PR person that's not so powerful in that regard?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I've hardly seen any posts like that. Even those with legitimate complains generally acknowledge and appreciate RubyEclipse's efforts and limitations as a <strike>PR</strike> community rep.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aren't we more interested in the smaller things, like when the blog/website is getting updated and such?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Considering that a lot of users here have probably seen the entire game and thus most forthcoming ‘new’ things, and that the updates trickle out at a glacial pace and are usually minute when they finally emerge, I doubt it. Information that's as close to ‘insider knowledge’ as most users here will get is a lot more interesting than that.
     
  17. <!--quoteo(post=502778:date=Sep 8 2010, 06:01 PM:name=glem3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (glem3 @ Sep 8 2010, 06:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502778">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->isn't the main physics problem just the wall sticking?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't think so. Uncurling is a big issue, that prevents you from blasting through the stages in ball form (after all, Sonic should have PINBALL physics), and there are several acceleration issues you are overlooking. How Sonic behaves on slopes, how his momentum is magically lost all the time, it's all wrong.

    <!--quoteo(post=502782:date=Sep 8 2010, 06:04 PM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Sep 8 2010, 06:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502782">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is pretty hilarious, we have a PR guy from a video game company telling people to not get excited about their game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, I'm glad we finally got some honesty.
     
  18. Skyler

    Skyler

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    As always, thanks for the info, Ruby. I know you must get a lot of unneccesary flack, but I guess that's what happens.
    Count me as someone wanting to hear the differences in the music, as well. :)

    <!--quoteo(post=502749:date=Sep 8 2010, 01:19 PM:name=SOTI)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SOTI @ Sep 8 2010, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502749">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way, could you push out LLZ2's music track to the website so I can push out my SMPS import?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm sure you could already push it out, SEGA hasn't had my remix removed at all.
     
  19. <!--quoteo(post=502787:date=Sep 8 2010, 05:07 PM:name=Cooljerk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cooljerk @ Sep 8 2010, 05:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502787">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ruby, I do not envy your job at all :v:

    Question about the console versions of Sonic 4 (specifically the wii and PS3 versions) - will they be 100% playable without motion controls? I know the infamous mine cart stages are gone, but can you play the special stages without using tilt? As in, can I completely play the game, interacting with absolutely everything, without ever having to use tilt?

    This sounds like an odd request, but there is significant meaning behind it - I have a Sega Saturn USB controller that I love to use with my PS3, and playing Sonic 4 with that baby is going to get my nostalgia juices flowing so hard. It is without a doubt the way I'll be playing Sonic 4 on my first go-through, so I need to know if there will be an option to turn off tilt completely. By the same stroke, is there any way you could map the non-tilt segments to the d-pad rather than the shoulder buttons? The sega saturn pad maps the shoulder buttons oddly (I.e. L is L1, and R is L2, Z is R1 and C is R2).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I want to do that SO BAD.

    But yes I believe the motion controls can be disabled.
     
  20. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    @RubyEclipse: If you could consider a drop in dashpads, the uncurling fix and the removal of wall-sticking as "minor fixes" then I'll reconsider my current thoughts on the game. Thank you for being completely honest and helping us through and through, though Ruby. :)

    Also it seems we wouldn't have to get the full game to see the fixes made to Sonic 4, because there would be a free demo to play of it in the Xbox Marketplace / whereever.. correct? Or would it just be the ho-hum E3 build?
     
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