The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Scarred Sun, Apr 7, 2010.

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  1. Sparks

    Sparks

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    <!--quoteo(post=443166:date=Apr 16 2010, 06:57 AM:name=Azukara)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Azukara @ Apr 16 2010, 06:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443166">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Never seen those screens of XG before this very moment (besides Palm Paradiso), but now I have a sudden urge to play that game and beg Sega to make episode 2 just like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>They're hoaxes</span>



    I have a feeling if SEGA didn't market Sonic 4 the way they did, we'd be more welcoming to everything seen right now. I could easily imagine comments like "LLZ reminds me of LZ from Sonic 1, with some AIZ from Sonic Advance in it too" comments instead of bashing the similarities. If anything LLZ seems just as similar to LZ as HCZ did. :U
     
  2. Ritz

    Ritz

    Subhedgehog Member
    <!--quoteo(post=443148:date=Apr 16 2010, 03:36 AM:name=Guess Who)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guess Who @ Apr 16 2010, 03:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443148">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally, I didn't think Lost Labyrinth's art looked like the original Labyrinth's at all, unlike Casino Street which is blatantly CNZ. It's definitely the same zone trope, but I think with new badniks, it would hardly be a rehash.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree, actually. They did a pretty fantastic job with LLZ's art, to the point where the pre-rendered graphics almost seem justified. It's pretty much the only thing they got right with this game.
     
  3. OSM

    OSM

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    Was really bored and decided to look back at the old blog posts, then I remembered seeing this:

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Speed is something that is not given; but rather earned through dedication. Speed is not found by simply pushing a boost button, but by building momentum. It is the reward for skill in the face of difficult challenges – this kind of speed is the most exhilarating, not only because it is fast, but because of the pure perfection such speed exemplifies. This is the truth of the original Sonic games – and this is the truth of Project Needlemouse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->






    [​IMG]
    Glad to see they were true to their word.
     
  4. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    <!--quoteo(post=443161:date=Apr 16 2010, 07:29 AM:name=PC2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PC2 @ Apr 16 2010, 07:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443161">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">Sonic XG<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Mildly off-topic, but has there been any recent news about this/Retro Sonic XG/whatever it is? Is it still being worked on? I understood the first half was supposed to come out last year...
     
  5. <!--quoteo(post=443474:date=Apr 17 2010, 12:24 AM:name=OSM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OSM @ Apr 17 2010, 12:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443474">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Was really bored and decided to look back at the old blog posts, then I remembered seeing this:

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Speed is something that is not given; but rather earned through dedication. Speed is not found by simply pushing a boost button, but by building momentum. It is the reward for skill in the face of difficult challenges – this kind of speed is the most exhilarating, not only because it is fast, but because of the pure perfection such speed exemplifies. This is the truth of the original Sonic games – and this is the truth of Project Needlemouse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Glad to see they were true to their word.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Technically they did, the homing attack is not a "boost button", in fact the homing attack is building momentum, it's just entirely too much momentum at once.
     
  6. Solaris Paradox

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    <!--quoteo(post=443474:date=Apr 17 2010, 12:24 AM:name=OSM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OSM @ Apr 17 2010, 12:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443474">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[​IMG]
    Glad to see they were true to their word.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I love when people use that empty, flatland image to prove how woefully abusable the Air Dash is, because virtually none of the game is actually flat or devoid of Homing targets, so how often do you get to spam the Air Dash like that? =/
     
  7. OSM

    OSM

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    <!--quoteo(post=443480:date=Apr 17 2010, 12:49 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Apr 17 2010, 12:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443480">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=443474:date=Apr 17 2010, 12:24 AM:name=OSM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OSM @ Apr 17 2010, 12:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443474">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[​IMG]
    Glad to see they were true to their word.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I love when people use that empty, flatland image to prove how woefully abusable the Air Dash is, because virtually none of the game is actually flat or devoid of Homing targets, so how often do you get to spam the Air Dash like that? =/
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's not the point, there's virtually no momentum in this entire game the way they described it in that blog post. It's outright deceitful, marketing or not.
     
  8. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    <!--quoteo(post=443484:date=Apr 17 2010, 01:00 AM:name=OSM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OSM @ Apr 17 2010, 01:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443484">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's not the point, there's virtually no momentum in this entire game the way they described it in that blog post. It's outright deceitful, marketing or not.

    <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Why are there like 2-3 admins viewing this thread. I'm about to get sniped aren't I.</span><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Then bring up something that matters, like the boost pads or the spring-spring-spring-spring-spring-spring stuff or the Homing Attack chains or how the vertical springs always shoot you straight up regardless of inertia. The only time the Air Dash itself looks abusive to me are on <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>the god damn conveyor belts in Mad Gear Zone.</span>
     
  9. OSM

    OSM

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    <!--quoteo(post=443493:date=Apr 17 2010, 01:44 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Apr 17 2010, 01:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443493">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then bring up something that matters<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That...actually does matter though. :psyduck:
     
  10. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    <!--quoteo(post=443496:date=Apr 17 2010, 01:49 AM:name=OSM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OSM @ Apr 17 2010, 01:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443496">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=443493:date=Apr 17 2010, 01:44 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Apr 17 2010, 01:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443493">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then bring up something that matters<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That...actually does matter though. :psyduck:
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not really. Being able to gather momentum marginally faster through multiple Air Dashes isn't much of an issue when multiple-air-dash combos are few and far between, as it's situational. I'm also not that opposed to multiple air dashes gaining more momentum, building up the faster you go, but I think it should be toned down just a little bit.

    In any event, it's nowhere near as significant as those other things I mentioned. The Air Dash applies itself (however unbalanced) as a valid momentum-based ability, whereas the overdone booster-saturation, the auto-springs and combo springs, the Homing Attack chains and most especially the Homing Attack targets that are supposed to be environmental platforming gimmicks... these run counter to the momentum-based gameplay philosophy in a much larger way.
     
  11. Effexor

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    Honestly, I'd like it if they capped the speed you could go from the air dashes.
     
  12. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    <!--quoteo(post=443505:date=Apr 17 2010, 02:06 AM:name=Effexor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Effexor @ Apr 17 2010, 02:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443505">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly, I'd like it if they capped the speed you could go from the air dashes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    As would I, actually. I think I suggested that on the Sega forums when I made that little feedback topic of mine.
     
  13. Azookara

    Azookara

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    Although I get where you're coming from, I do have to justify that the same could be done as it would be if you were to overdrive the Spindash for 3 seconds and blast off. Although that sort of brings the issue of making the Spindash pretty useless, so... :psyduck:
     
  14. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    <!--quoteo(post=443510:date=Apr 17 2010, 02:09 AM:name=Azukara)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Azukara @ Apr 17 2010, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443510">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although I get where you're coming from, I do have to justify that the same could be done as it would be if you were to overdrive the Spindash for 3 seconds and blast off. Although that sort of brings the issue of making the Spindash pretty useless, so... :psyduck:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well, on flatland with no valid homing targets, anyway. Depending on the circumstance (and the shape of the terrain), you might actually have better luck with a Spin Dash.

    The Spin Dash is also the obvious choice between the two if what you need is added speed for a longer jump.
     
  15. The Taxman

    The Taxman

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    <!--quoteo(post=443476:date=Apr 17 2010, 02:28 PM:name=LordOfSquad)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LordOfSquad @ Apr 17 2010, 02:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443476">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=443161:date=Apr 16 2010, 07:29 AM:name=PC2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PC2 @ Apr 16 2010, 07:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443161">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">Sonic XG<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Mildly off-topic, but has there been any recent news about this/Retro Sonic XG/whatever it is? Is it still being worked on? I understood the first half was supposed to come out last year...
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I honestly couldn't tell you what's going to happen with Retro Sonic XG. I'm mega busy working on a commercial project, and following that I'll just have enough time to finish off the remaining bits on Sonic Nexus for Slingerland. I know a lot of people want this game, but I have to keep moving forward with my career. Whatever happens, I'll let everyone know when I can.
     
  16. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    Alas for the crushing realities of fangame development. -.-'
     
  17. The Taxman

    The Taxman

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    <!--quoteo(post=443520:date=Apr 17 2010, 04:53 PM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Apr 17 2010, 04:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443520">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alas for the crushing realities of fangame development. -.-'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I wouldn't call it a crushing reality per say, more like working on more exciting things. It's not like I have to give it up for working in a peanut factory :P
     
  18. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    <!--quoteo(post=443521:date=Apr 17 2010, 03:03 AM:name=The Taxman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Taxman @ Apr 17 2010, 03:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443521">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=443520:date=Apr 17 2010, 04:53 PM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Apr 17 2010, 04:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443520">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alas for the crushing realities of fangame development. -.-'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I wouldn't call it a crushing reality per say, more like working on more exciting things. It's not like I have to give it up for working in a peanut factory :P
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Oh, I know, I know. I'm not even being serious. (And actually, I was talking more from the point of view of those waiting for the game, if you know what I mean. =P)
     
  19. Chimpo

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    <!--quoteo(post=443480:date=Apr 16 2010, 09:49 PM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Apr 16 2010, 09:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443480">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love when people use that empty, flatland image to prove how woefully abusable the Air Dash is, because virtually none of the game is actually flat or devoid of Homing targets, so how often do you get to spam the Air Dash like that? =/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I love how you pretend that the opportunity to abuse the Homing Attack is impossible just because the rest of the game isn't flat targetless territory. The GIF simply proves that the Homing Attack can be abused to gain the desire speed faster than well, actually attempting to gain it through the traditional methods. Why spindash and walk when you can just jump and homing attack?

    Hell, since this game is practically Sonic Megamix, let's use Sonic Megamix as an example

    <!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z_qDegzTaBo&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z_qDegzTaBo&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->

    The main way the player obtains and maintains his speed is by, surprise surprise, abusing the homing attack, even though there are badniks and monitors around. So what? Just homing attack again, problem solved. It's way faster than coming to a dead stop just to spin dash again.

    The GIF merely proves that the Homing Attack can be abused. Whether there are enemies or flat terrain was never part of the question. If anything, the uneven terrain and enemy spawns will give the player a tremendous advantage to abuse the fuck out of it.
     
  20. Solaris Paradox

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    <!--quoteo(post=443524:date=Apr 17 2010, 03:28 AM:name=Chimpo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chimpo @ Apr 17 2010, 03:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=443524">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love how you pretend that the opportunity to abuse the Homing Attack is impossible just because the rest of the game isn't flat targetless territory. The GIF simply proves that the Homing Attack can be abused to gain the desire speed faster than well, actually attempting to gain it through the traditional methods. Why spindash and walk when you can just jump and homing attack?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Because Spin Dashing first makes the Air Dash faster. =P

    <span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%">(...I'm kidding... but it's probably true, the Spin Dash -> Air Dash combo...)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

    That wasn't my point, though. My point is that you can't multi-air-dash thoughout any significant portion of the game, and an individual Air Dash with no built-up momentum behind it hardly carries enough momentum by itself to constitute a significant problem—it doesn't even look as powerful as the Fire Shield was. And frankly it's miles beneath Megamix and other hacked-in versions of the Homing Attack in terms of the raw speed you get out of it... because its actual speed is affected by the speed you already have, whereas in Megamix and the like it just rockets you off at mach five at the press of a button, even from a standstill.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hell, since this game is practically Sonic Megamix, let's just Sonic Megamix as an example

    *video*

    The main way the player obtains and maintains his speed is by, surprise surprise, abusing the homing attack, even though there are badniks and monitors around. So what? Just homing attack again, problem solved. It's way faster than coming to a dead stop just to spin dash again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The difference being that in that game, coming to a dead stop after a Homing Attack (or a blunder into an Eggman monitor, as the case may be) didn't hinder the momentum you could get from the Air Dash. It always sends you flying at the same high speed. If in Sonic 4 you Homing Attack, and then Air Dash, what happens is your momentum breaks completely just before the Dash and the result is that the Air Dash's speed and range is consequently limited.

    Yes, people are going to be using that to gain speed faster. But no, not to the extent that the image attempts to prove. And yes, that image has been used to say more about the Air Dash than the obvious "This move is going to be used to gain speed faster."

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The GIF merely proves that the Homing Attack can be abused. Whether there are enemies or flat terrain was never part of the question. If anything, the uneven terrain and enemy spawns will give the player a tremendous advantage to abuse the fuck out of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What? =/

    Uneven terrain makes using the Air Dash more precise, especially when it's squared terrain. One mis-step and you lose all momentum and have to start again. Enemies that present lock-on targets also break your flow if you happen to home into them, since hitting an enemy with the Homing Attack causes Sonic to bounce upward and lose all momentum. In order for the Air Dash to be abused to the degree shown in the image, you either need to have room to use it, or just be really good at knowing exactly when to use it.

    I still think it needs to be toned down, but I maintain that this is the least of the game's problems.
     
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