The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread

I now realize why all of the better members of Sonic Team left - they were sick of dealing with this guy's shit and compensating for his ignorance. The smart ones jumped ship. Now he's free to point the franchise into whatever manic direction he wants.

+ - [/over dramatization]  

But yeah, this guy needs to go, not that that's anything new though.

 

I can't believe someone actually said this. As soon as my peals of uproarious laughter subside, I think I'll go back to playing S3&K...

The thing is here, that ol' Iizuka is right, but only about classic "boosters" like the springs and rebounding from enemies. Modern boosters boost you in the same direction you're already going, or when you're already moving fast, and don't do squat for the pacing. The modern "touch-and-go" springs, for instance, are significantly to blame for this.

 

No one on retro, sure. There was a time when no one was complaining about sonic 4, too.

There are still tons of people complaining about sonic colors on gamefaqs and neogaf, not to mention some other sonic websites.

 

Not very good examples. On Gamefaqs ond Neogaf, they complain about everything. 4 has some rather bad design choices, while it would appear the Colors does not. That and the stigma of having "4" in the name naturally raises our expectations. They have yet to live up to said expectations.

 

I've just gone back to looking at Sonic 4 videos. Considering the last build wasn't finalized, and that it's gone back for another 4/5 months, I'd say it's going to be pretty good in all honesty. Hopefully they'll remove half the dash pads in Splash Hill, change the physics, which apparently they're already onto doing, perhaps remove that what seems to be a useless jump-boost thing, and you've got yourself a game.

I'm even liking the music. I'd probably change the second two Acts of Casino Street though. I like the boss music too, but personally, I always imagined Sonic 4 would have sounded more like this;



Epic.

I'm not being purposefully positive, I'm not being purposefully negative. I've seen what I've seen, and it doesn't look too bad. I've got a quip with a few things, but these are things present in the other games too, like the damn irritating moving gears and such. I don't even mind the home-attack. I think it'll feel like a natural progression from the evolution of Nothing -> Spindash -> Insta-shield -> Super Peelout.

The worst 'acceptable' thing in any Sonic game is that fuckin' pit in Mystic cave.

 

Holy crap what a moron. I wonder if he's just saying that because S4 has the physics it has and he's too stubborn to consider that there may be anything wrong with them. Speed boosters everywhere do give the game a more balanced pacing, you end up going at the same speed everywhere. Which sucks. A better pacing comes from decent level designs and physics.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WHAT THE HELL MAN

Iizuka, you're fucked up man. Go play the classic games again, you'll find that speed boosters weren't in every fucking level. We KNOW the real reason why they're around - the engine that you decided to use was fucked up.

Skyline route? Don't you mean those stupid fucking Bubbles lines? With correct physics and design, you could get the same fucking results without the homing attack! It's only there to pleasure the modern fans and Sonic 4 is going to contain so many modern moves in the end so Iizuka is pleased with what he's got.

Nah, it was definately the fan reaction. The PartnerNET version was most likely the final build so if it wasn't leaked and people didn't rage about the mine cart, it'd still be around.

If Episode I didn't get so much shit due to how crap the developers out, I think we could've got another episode out by the end of this year. A shame, but blame Dimps for their incompetence.

Familiar sense? It's fucked! This game barely represents classic, you don't even have the Classic HUD, you have something from Sonic Advance! Everything in this game represents what Dimps have done before. If this was classic, we'd have the boss at the end of Act 3 and I don't know why it's separate now. Oh yeah, Dimps stopped doing that stuff after Sonic Advance.

SEGA, if you actually let Yuji Naka do what he wanted to do rather than preventing him to, we wouldn't have a shitfuck like Iizuka running the show. Letting a horrible level designer take over Sonic Team because the other guys walked out of your bullshit.

 

I know I'm basically walking into a giant tidal wave, but... here we go.

There are speed boosters in only one level of the game. Okay, one zone with three acts. I will agree that Iizuka pulled that statement out of his ass, but only on the basis that these speed boosters don't have as much of a presence throughout the rest the game as they do in Splash Hill. If they only appear in that one zone, they're not that much of an "important element" now. I will eat my words if I find out that there are speed boosters in any other zone but Splash Hill, but I'd rather Iizuka not overplay the importance of these speed boosters.

 

I dunno what Iizuka's smoking, but I'd love to actually sit with him and pass it between us, with Gens open on my laptop.

Me: "Yeah man, I love this part in Chemical Plant where you go down this crazy long slope and shoot up like a mile into the air, dude, man."
Iizuka: "Really? I always thought that was an inconvenience to people who want to take that lower path without wasting time."
"People like watching Sonic catapult while spinning like a nigga's rimz, and getting crazy air time before landing and takin' off at whatever speed momentum sends 'em at, dude guy."
"Whoa...So what's your favorite part of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, random fan guy?"
"All the insane gimmicks and shit you guys threw at me in Flying Battery Zone, though I could live with or without the boosters."
"Wait, you guys like slowing down for platforming and spinning around on poles and shit? And then you want to regain speed on your own? Dude, my Asian mind is blown."
"I would'a thought it'd be able to wrap around it several times, but live and learn I guess."

And then we both break out in song. LIVE AND LEEAAAARN. HAAAANGING ON THE EEEEDGE OF TOMORROOOWHOAAAAOOWHOOAAAAA!!!!!!!

 

If you check a few pages you'll find that Lost Labyrinth has them too.

 

*Checks previous pages*

Well son of a bitch, it does. Goddamn it Dimps, in a labyrinth zone? Speed boosters in a labyrinth zone. Well, time to pick up my word fork and start eating.

 

Once again, it's a new game, guys. Give it a chance before you shit all over it. Then when you're disappointed, you can put together a detailed proof-of-concept hack that hands Iizuka's ass to him while the rest of us play videogames and shit. With enough outcry, Episode 2 is when things will get real yo.

 

But wait, there's MOOOOAR. For some reason, when I google image "Casino Street Zone," I get a level of Mad Gear Zone with Sonic going through a booster.

Yes, give it a chance. Just like all the games post Sonic Adventure 2/Sonic Heroes were given chances. SEGA has lost the privilege of "chance" from me, personally. I find it more reliable to assume the game is shit and then play it. My expectations are either met, or the game is slightly better than I expected -- which makes it a win-win solution, rather than giving the false hope "this may be great!" and then, once more, being curb stomped, brain matter left on shoe soles.

 

Yeah. That's exactly what being disappointed with a videogame feels like.

I'm not saying the game won't be shit, but I have been saying the game looks really good in spite of the criticisms I've seen levied against it. To be fair, though, there does seem to be an unbroken string of bumpers-to-boosters sequence in Splash Hill Act 3 depending on which route you pick, but hey, it's rilly fast.

It's not like I even disagree with the fact that Sonic 4 should be more Sonic 3 & Knuckles than it is like Sonic Advance or Rush. The only thing I disagree with is that any similarities it has to the latter immediately damns the games to the shit box. That's doesn't sound so much as criticism as it does raging paranoia. Sure, remove the excessive boosters, tweak the physics, and remove Iizuka while they're at it, because he's not gaining any PR victories for the game, but the game still looks worth playing. Hopefully by the time the game comes out in December (which seems like the best possible time to release it), it'll be prim and nice with lots of spice. Whatever.

 

By giving the game a chance it will be too late. Sega will have our money, and an incentive to make more shit games. Nah, fuck that! Besides, you don't need to give it a chance to know you'll fucking hate it. I've never been gang raped in prison before, but I don't need to try it to know that I won't enjoy it.

Iizuka has spoken, he is clearly an arrogant, condescending cock who is taking the piss out of us. 10 years of shit games and Sega's bullshit speaks volumes, but the people tolerating this shit are just as much to blame too. I have more respect for the fan who actually likes the look of this game and buys it, than the people who complain about it and buy it anyway.

If you HAVE been complaining then I wouldn't even entertain the idea of trying this shit. A line has to be drawn somewhere, if not for the game looking like complete and utter aids, then for Sega deliberately being cunts. Poor reviews and an angry fanbase are not going to hurt these people, but poor sales will.

 

Speaking for myself mainly on everything but, honestly, I'm not afraid of minor changes if the game benefits from said changes. When Sonic Adventure released, I was open arms to the green-eyes, the grinding, the EXTREME aspects of everything, etc. The Adventure series was very enjoyable, so nothing seemed too outrageous when having a good time. It was the decline of the franchise that started to make me dislike the newer Sonic, and wish things would go back to how things were in the past.

Even though some people here has experience playing the game, and have more weight with their criticism about specific changes made that took away from their experiences, I can understand and sympathize with those who have no experience with the game, and just have simple, as you say, "raging paranoia" in regards to the new changes. It really is fear, because I feel some of us equate change with "bad", rather than good in a lot of cases -- at least, for Sonic 4. We all know how fun the classics games were, and it makes sense to me to fear any change from the old formulas, because everyone here wants a good game, not another mediocre game, or worse. (For some, it's been way too long since the last time enjoyment was truly had in a Sonic game. This is true to me personally -- Sonic Unleashed, with only a few Sonic-specific levels, satisfied me to a point, so I look forward to how Sonic Colors does).

The release of this game is going to be such a great, great deal, and this will all be a different story when Episode 2 is in the making -- all our criticisms will hold much more weight, cause we will all experience the pros and the cons of Sonic 4. Right now, there's minor experience, and much fear. It's surely, from my point of view, going to stay that way till release.

Seeing and playing are too different experiences. I find it somewhat ignorant of someone to say that a new feature of a game is going to cause it to suck, when they've never played it and experienced if the feature truly detracts or adds from said experience. Those here who has had experience playing the game, and has expressed their opinions that specific aspects suck, I give a lot more weight and credit to.

Personally, aside from nostalgia, one reason I'm buying this game is so any opinions I express in regards to features ruining gameplay is so that I don't seem ignorant, and bias. If you'd like to hurt sales, it'd be best to just play the demo, but, I highly doubt a few rebels are going to hurt SEGA's pockets that much with this monster of a game. Might as well dig into it, complain, and hope your wishes make it into Sonic 4: Episode 2 -- if not, then bail. If Episode 1 sucks, surely the sales of Episode 2 won't be as high, unless SEGA actually addresses our common complaints, and make it seem like something we all here would truly like to play.

 

It seems we have become Sega's yo-yo as of late. Our spirits go down just soon as they go up. We're mad at Iizuka's comment now, but watch as Sega will release the next trailer to pacify us for just a little longer. Then we'll get pissed at the next interview that says something we disagree with until more new media is shown. Wash, rinse and all that jazz.

 

I'm not against merited criticisms or not giving SEGA money for bullshit. I just think it's bullshit when a game that looks this good is getting so much shit before it's played.

If there's a demo of the game I can play, and I end up not satisfied at all with what I've played, then I won't buy the game. If I do like what I've played and want to play more of it, then I'll buy it. My attitude towards Episode 1 is leaning towards the latter, and once I've played the game, I'll think about what could've made it better and how Episode 2 can fix what was wrong with it. Hell, Telltale made neat gameplay and graphical improvements with each season of Sam & Max, and I enjoyed playing those games. A lot. Yeah, SEGA's not Telltale, but I'm willing to give them a chance with Sonic 4.

I'm aware Endri's played a build of the game and didn't like it. I've also seen somebody from Sonic Stadium play it can get pissed at the Labyrinth Zone boss. Fair enough. I just wonder if it's either because THE GAME HAS BROKEN PHYSICS AND TOO MANY BOOSTERS or some other reason; I've forgotten what Endri said about the game. Trust me, if I think the game has too many fucking boosters and the physics make Sonic float around like it's zero-gravity land, then I'll promptly levy those complaints against SEGA in their blogs and emails and crap. Then I'll be back here with you guys saying you were right.

 

This is why our fanbase is fucked. For something to be classic, it needs the classic HUD, it needs the boss at the end of an act rather than separate, it can't have speed boosters, it can't have uncurling, it can't have anything that is unfamiliar to us, because if anything is unfamiliar to us, that automatically makes it terrible. Oh, but, its carrying the name Sonic 4! Yes, it's named Sonic 4. It's not named Sonic 3, it's not named sonic 2, and it's not named sonic 1.

So, what do we do if the game doesn't play JUST like the classics? Well, rush doesn't play like the classics! So we'll compare it to rush! A game we hate because it's different, despite it being higher rated than the latest re-release of sonic 2. That doesn't mean it's better than the classics, but it better be doing SOMETHING right to be the best rated sonic game SINCE the classics. Hate the boost because it ruins momentum based gameplay, okay. Maybe that's not what rush was going for? Maybe rush was going more for the genuine fun of speed? But who cares if the game is fun in its own right? It's has a name. And if it doesn't match the name, it doesn't matter how good it is, I hate it.

The gameplay and level design of sonic 4 is nothing like rush. There's not an automatic boost button, and there are less speed boosters per act than sonic rush or sonic advance. That's what should be important. The physics are an issue, definitely, but not because they're different from the classics, but simply because they ruin some of the fun. That said, they don't have to be like the classics, they just need to be good in their own right. They're also not the rush physics, despite what some people say. In rush sonic could literally walk up huge slopes with no momentum, here he DOES walk on walls but he can't go any higher. The roll is much more powerful in sonic 4, as is the spindash.

Not to mention, the problem in sonic rush WASN'T that the spin dash was underpowered, it was that the boost always did it better. There IS no boost in sonic 4, so the spindash is faster. It only makes sense they would underpower the spindash in a game which is focused on a boost mechanic. It makes sense from a game standpoint, so stop letting your expectations on labels get in the way.

Sonic Colors doesn't get complaints because it's not trying to be anything. But I guarantee if it was called sonic 4, there would be way more hate than for this sonic 4. But the hate wouldn't be because of bad decisions or bad gameplay, it would just be because it's different. And because of that, we'd be hating on what we'd otherwise see as a good game. So what's the point of hating on a good game? Yes, we've heard the comparisons of asking for something and getting something different, but you didn't BUY this game not knowing what it was, like in all these comparisons you keep making. You didn't KNOW the game was called sonic 4 until you saw gameplay.

So you can say it's like a man selling apples selling bananas and etc., but really it's like if a man told you he'd be selling something like he used to sell, and it would be tasty, and showed you a banana before you bought it. If you don't like it, fine. But that doesn't mean bananas are bad. You didn't get ripped off, he never specifically said this will be an apple until he showed it to you, at which point he revealed it was an banana. You might be angry, but you didn't pay for anything and you don't have to. So at that point, would you just stay by the man, complaining? No, you'd walk away. And if you hate this game so much, you should do the same. Just forget about it, and walk away.

 

You people amaze me, seriously. Are you that fucking clueless?

Just because some cunt says that Rush is good (way to think for yourself there bro, bringing up reviews), doesn't necessarily mean people expecting a TOTALLY different game are going to enjoy another game like it. It's like going to the Ritz and ordering Chateaubriand and Dom Perrignon, but the waiter brings you a cheeseburger and a coke, and when you complain he responds with "yeah, but it's still food and it's tasty so stop complaining". As it is I don't like burgers, or Rush and of course Sonic 4.

Again, nobody's stopping you from buying this game. Have at it, enjoy it. In the meantime, mind your own fucking business. Why do other peoples views on the game concern you? The people who hate it don't give a fuck whether you like it or not, do they?