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The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Scarred Sun, Apr 7, 2010.

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  1. amphobius

    amphobius

    doing more important things with my life Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=438781:date=Apr 7 2010, 09:18 AM:name=Aquaslash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aquaslash @ Apr 7 2010, 09:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438781">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will be buying on day one! Thought I hope it doesn't take forever for all the other episodes to come out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It sure is nice to see other people sharing the same sentiments as me! It's good to be positive about a game—the more the better. :)

    Actually, I find this makes you enjoy the game more—I was hyped as fuck for Mega Man 10 and enjoyed every second of it. It's not the same feeling for Sonic 4, but hopefully the next few months will change. :v:
     
  2. Lord Kanti

    Lord Kanti

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    So what did I miss?

    Apparently, Episode 1 is a mash up of Sonic 2-like levels, and bosses, with a hint of Sonic 1.

    So I'm guessing Episode 2 will be more like a mash up between Sonic 3 and Sonic n' Knuckles? Or more Sonic 2/1 mash-ups? I'm hoping for a re-vamped Hidden Palace from Sonic 2 Beta!
     
  3. My opinion.
    Doesn't look like Rush in any way shape or form. I do not see any resemblances....at all. Rush had poor momentum physics, this game has momentum physics, which aren't broken.
    The jump looks a little off but not utterly terrible. I think that just claiming it as "Rush HD", is not really a good standpoint, as they don't simmilar, in the slightest.
    I don't really see any justifications for saying that it has a shit engine. I haven't played it, so I don't know, and likeyhood is that hardly anyone else has, so they can't really comment on it. We shall see, when we shall see.
    Art direction is fine in my opinion, lots of bright colours and varied level designs. If you don't like it, your taste is different to mine.
    I don't think its OK to just judge the game as....ahem...."one of the worst games SEGA has shat out, because we have no way of knowing. The guy playing it seemed like a moron, who may have lacked skill in the 2D sidescrolling deal, so it may have made it look worse than it actually is (Trust me, I cam make the Mega Drive games look broken, thats how bad I am at them). However, this is just my opinion.

    Take as is.
     
  4. Zallirog

    Zallirog

    Uh, what were we talking about? Member
    Well I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by all the nostalgia the levels we saw brought me. I still can't ignore some of the apparent problems with physics, such as, standing still on the side of a hill. However, I am hopeful that Sega will still be willing to listen to some of the criticisms here and in some other places to try to improve those kinds of things. Other than that I am looking forward to purchasing and playing Sonic 4 as soon as possible.
     
  5. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    When what I can assume was the alpha build was leaked with Sonic in Splash Zone a while back, I have to say I was pretty nervous; it seemed that the physics were weird and floaty and while I cautiously had hope for the game, I was for the most part pessimistic. However, time has passed and I feel that Sega has definitely put a lot of work into making sure this game turns out good. I hold that this will be the beginning of Sonic's return to form.
     
  6. Spanner

    Spanner

    The Tool Member
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    Sonic Hacking Contest
    I personally think that while SEGA are trying to please the fanbase with a sequel that they've wanted for a long time, they fucked up badly with their concepts, level design and of course, the people involved in making this game.

    From looking at the videos, it's generically the same shit you've seen with small twists. Every zone is a blatant rehash of an existing zone, in fact the game is entirely a rehash. This is not what you call Sonic the Hedgehog 4. In fact, the name is pretty stupid as well and it's only for publicity.

    Sonic 4 has an unfortunate case of going backwards, not forwards. This doesn't feel like a sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles at all, the level design is in a Sonic 2 style and so is the horrible drum samples used. The music isn't exactly good bar a few tracks and Jun Senoue wasn't really a good choice if all he was able to do was use the same horrible instruments over and over again. At least he used a lost track from Sonic 3D, I believe there's another one that hasn't been used yet, maybe it will be used in later episodes.

    Sonic music did not use the same instruments in every track, this soundtrack seems to use the same stuff over and over again. Go listen to the classic soundtrack, it's different. If different instruments were used, then the tracks would probably sound better. In fact, I've imported a few songs from Sonic 4 to Sonic 1's music system and they sound better. I can't link them though, not until the real tracks are revealed by SEGA.

    I need to criticise the level design, because there are just parts which are horrible. Dimps wanted to use a lot of their concepts used in Advance and Rush in this game and it clearly shows. Speed boosters in every zone is a Dimps thing and in the classic games, if a game had speed boosters, they were only in a few levels. Are speed boosters used to show how shitty the engine is? The engine is sloppy and wasn't exactly designed for stuff that isn't a Nintendo DS. Dimps just wanted to use existing concepts, some of them don't work. Simple.

    Badniks returning may give some nostalgia, but the designs are shit. Paper-mache motobugs and Bubbles badniks with no spikes which are just used so the player is forced to use the homing attack? In fact, Bubbles was in every fucking zone according to the videos, with the real red ones making minor appearances. In Sonic 1, some badniks made appearances in more than one zone, but this is just absurd.

    The bosses in this game are interesting, they may be rehashes, but they're different. However, they do look piss easy to defeat. I do think that the Eggmobiles used were too big though. Having a seperate act for the bosses weren't needed, another Dimps thing it seems, even though they had the bosses in a normal Act in Sonic Advance, but that was a long time ago. Also, E.G.G Station is pretty much Robotnik's Revenge, though there's no explanation on getting to space. Maybe the video didn't pick up on a transition used?

    Finally, I think that not having a PC port is a bad idea. Why make a port for the iPhone or the N2 while you ignore another platform where people emulate previous games? Perhaps SEGA thought that their fanbase all had next-generation consoles, or they had a concern regarding piracy since it could be leaked out and easily played, regardless of any form of DRM present.

    That's all I have to say right now. Later episodes need to be different from what we've seen here, and I still want a carnival-themed level featuring the barrel. Also, minibosses. :)
     
  7. What I like: Come on, it's Sonic 4, it's a fucking 2D sonic game. Why is everyone ballshappy about NSMB but breaks their balls off about what's wrong with Sonic 4?

    What I dislike: The percussion :( - Whyyyyyyy in the love of god use these bad-as-ass-compressed Sonic 1 drums!? IS this supposed to be a 15 years delayed genesis game or a game released in 2010, god damnit. It's supposed to be a sequel, why not use, for instance, the S3(&K) drumkit? That was at least awesome. But no, go back another few years. What a joke.

    Nintendo: NEW SUPER MARIO BROS.! Crowd: YEEEEAAAAAAH!!111
    Sega: Sonic 4 Crowd: .... Crowd 1 (50%): YEAH ... Crowd 2 (50%): BOOOOOO
     
  8. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Before this gets any worse, could we avoid specifically targeting each others' opinions like in the above post? If he changes his opinion after playing the game, that's totally his decision; if he doesn't, just as well. There's no point in arguing the semantics when at the end of the day, the only opinion that should matter about the game is your own. Agree to disagree.

    As for my opinion on the game.... well, I'm square in the middle at this point. From what I've seen of the game—I guess at this point, all of it—I can safely say the game is likely to, if nothing else, be pretty enjoyable to pick up and play. I've never been opposed to Sonic games in the reign of the original Advance and Pocket Adventure where nostalgia is the driving factor of the game; after all, both were fun games and played on familiar aspects of past titles to create an enjoyable and unique experience. The various levels seem to be competently designed for the most part and use familiar level formations and tropes to create a very solid Sonic experience, even if it's not a terribly original one. If nothing else, it's comparatively better than most other games released on the modern consoles in recent day. Depending on how you look at things, this is either saying a lot or not saying much at all. I'll leave it to your imagination to determine which one of them is the case.

    My issue with the game remains the same issue I had with it since day one—I don't think the game should have been called Sonic 4. By calling the game Sonic 4, you introduce a whole new set of expectations and connotations for the game that, at least for me, cannot be reasonably achieved by developers currently under contract by SEGA as a company. When I see existing badniks and bosses used in the levels, it makes me think about how when I played Sonic 2 and 3 for the first time, my experience was distinctly different. I saw some familiar faces such as the bee and the fish, sure, but I was also faced with new enemies that challenged my expectations as I traversed through the level. Sonic 4 just throws things that I already knew at me, and it doesn't feel anywhere near as special or endearing. Sure, there's some new touches here and there, but from seeing the game played through I didn't feel as if they stood out enough to make a significant difference. That was among the many things that disappointed me about the game.

    I will say, though, that seeing the game played through proper gave me a better idea of what to expect. It kind of feels like an above-average fan game with a budget in nature, if that makes any sense—a mixture of original material with a lot of existing material brought together in a way that is meant to present a new Sonic experience. It reminds me a lot of what my goals were with Megamix when I started it so many years ago; I wanted to take some of the better parts of all the classic games I liked so much and bring them together into a new game that I would enjoy. Sonic 4's game direction reminds me a lot of that, though I don't feel as if the context of the game's release and the expectations from official titles have made it anywhere near as universally accepted. Mind you, I'm not implying that Megamix is somehow more successful than Sonic 4; in fact, I disagree with making the comparison by principle. I'm just trying to gauge the reactions I've seen for Sonic 4 and Megamix side by side. Take it with a grain of salt if you so desire.

    At the end of the day, I see a decent Sonic experience in Sonic 4, but I don't really see Sonic 4 in Sonic 4. Nothing about it seems to really innovate with the same kind of in-your-face attitude that the original trilogy managed to do to me. I will say that I was pretty impressed by Lost Labyrinth, though—in addition to being graphically stunning, it had a lot of really cool and interesting level elements and gimmicks that really stood out to me in a positive way. I just wish the rest of the game followed suit in that regard.
     
  9. Wombat Wallace

    Wombat Wallace

    Someone. Member
    While I will say I am quite disappointed with the game using pre-rendered 3D models as the sprites and how the camera seems ever so centered on Sonic, I am quite hyped for this one.
     
  10. HeartAttack

    HeartAttack

    is a smug hipster, brah! Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=438805:date=Apr 7 2010, 03:02 AM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Apr 7 2010, 03:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438805">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Before this gets any worse, could we avoid specifically targeting each others' opinions like in the above post? If he changes his opinion after playing the game, that's totally his decision; if he doesn't, just as well. There's no point in arguing the semantics when at the end of the day, the only opinion that should matter about the game is your own. Agree to disagree.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sounds good. Edited my post. Sorry about that. I'm gonna send you a PM.
     
  11. Blanche Hodapp

    Blanche Hodapp

    *urp* Eternal Queen
    <!--quoteo(post=438797:date=Apr 7 2010, 10:28 AM:name=SOTI)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SOTI @ Apr 7 2010, 10:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438797">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I need to criticise the level design, because there are just parts which are horrible. Dimps wanted to use a lot of their concepts used in Advance and Rush in this game and it clearly shows. Speed boosters in every zone is a Dimps thing and in the classic games, if a game had speed boosters, they were only in a few levels. Are speed boosters used to show how shitty the engine is? The engine is sloppy and wasn't exactly designed for stuff that isn't a Nintendo DS. Dimps just wanted to use existing concepts, some of them don't work. Simple.

    <snip>

    The bosses in this game are interesting, they may be rehashes, but they're different. However, they do look piss easy to defeat. I do think that the Eggmobiles used were too big though. Having a seperate act for the bosses weren't needed, another Dimps thing it seems, even though they had the bosses in a normal Act in Sonic Advance, but that was a long time ago. Also, E.G.G Station is pretty much Robotnik's Revenge, though there's no explanation on getting to space. Maybe the video didn't pick up on a transition used?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If I could just draw your attention to Sonic CD (which I think is the all-time greatest Sonic game ever made, this week, isn't it? It changes so often!~) re: boosters in every level, and the MS/GG games re: separate acts for bosses. I'd potentially agree with you that Dimps seem to have taken the speed boosters to ridiculous proportions, however, since one of my not-so-fond memories of the Advance series is being fired off in some direction or another before I know what's happening...

    And as for the unused S3D music that's been mentioned? I've said it time and again, there's a reason it was unused and that's because it's bad!

    I haven't actually made up my mind on the game itself, however, so I'll just have to wait until the legitimately-released gameplay footage. Ho-hum.
     
  12. <!--quoteo(post=438734:date=Apr 6 2010, 11:31 PM:name=Scarred Sun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarred Sun @ Apr 6 2010, 11:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438734">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...While you are not allowed to link to any previously leaked videos outside of Splash Hill Zone, you are allowed to discuss the contents of these videos...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Going to use this for a moment and say that from the only leaked boss video I watched, I was actually impressed with what they did. The first half was just a rehash from a Sonic 1 boss, but the second half was a completely new boss that looks pretty damn challenging! That just made me even more excited for this game.

    Oh, and Lost Labyrinth just has some of the most beautiful art, wouldn't you guys agree?
     
  13. Chaud

    Chaud

    Member
    <!--quoteo(post=438805:date=Apr 7 2010, 06:02 AM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Apr 7 2010, 06:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438805">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->:words:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This pretty much sums it up.

    It seems like it will be a "fun" game, but I really expected more from a game calling itself Sonic (effing) 4.
     
  14. Zallirog

    Zallirog

    Uh, what were we talking about? Member
    I do enjoy the look and feel of Lost Labyrinth zone quite a lot I must say. I have already mentioned it before but I really like the gimmick they added in act 3 I believe it was, where, you needed to balanced while rolling on top of giant Indiana Jones boulders to get to the next part of the stage. I thought that was a really unique sort of gimmick for a 2D Sonic game. I'm pretty sure at this point that Lost Labyrinth is going to be my favorite zone in the 1st episode.
     
  15. Deathbyteacup

    Deathbyteacup

    I'm spending a year dead for tax reasons. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=438814:date=Apr 7 2010, 07:08 AM:name=Chaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chaud @ Apr 7 2010, 07:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438814">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=438805:date=Apr 7 2010, 06:02 AM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Apr 7 2010, 06:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438805">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->:words:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This pretty much sums it up.

    It seems like it will be a "fun" game, but I really expected more from a game calling itself Sonic (effing) 4.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Personally I'm going to wait until I've played every episode and can actually see the entireity of Sonic 4 before I judge it's innovation to the series.

    For all we know, Sonic 4 could be the most innovative title ever created. We've seen all of Episode I, but we've only seen the first four prologue zones of Sonic 4. Episode I is the prologue, from the horses mouth, and a prologue is more or less backtracking, or "rehashing" what went on before, so you can move forward.

    I really see Episode II and beyond going to new levels. I really do.
     
  16. Chaud

    Chaud

    Member
    <!--quoteo(post=438816:date=Apr 7 2010, 07:13 AM:name=Deathbyteacup)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deathbyteacup @ Apr 7 2010, 07:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438816">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally I'm going to wait until I've played every episode and can actually see the entireity of Sonic 4 before I judge it's innovation to the series.

    (...)

    I really see Episode II and beyond going to new levels. I really do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Well, in any case, you can *still* say that *Episode 1* is exactly that. Let me rephrase myself, then - "it seems like it will be a "fun" game, but I really expected more from a game calling itself Sonic (effing) 4: Episode 1". Whatever the next episode shows, the first one is still a letdown.
     
  17. trakker

    trakker

    The guy that's been warned! Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=438816:date=Apr 7 2010, 12:13 PM:name=Deathbyteacup)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deathbyteacup @ Apr 7 2010, 12:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438816">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=438814:date=Apr 7 2010, 07:08 AM:name=Chaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chaud @ Apr 7 2010, 07:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438814">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=438805:date=Apr 7 2010, 06:02 AM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Apr 7 2010, 06:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438805">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->:words:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This pretty much sums it up.

    It seems like it will be a "fun" game, but I really expected more from a game calling itself Sonic (effing) 4.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Personally I'm going to wait until I've played every episode and can actually see the entireity of Sonic 4 before I judge it's innovation to the series.

    For all we know, Sonic 4 could be the most innovative title ever created. We've seen all of Episode I, but we've only seen the first four prologue zones of Sonic 4. Episode I is the prologue, from the horses mouth, and a prologue is more or less backtracking, or "rehashing" what went on before, so you can move forward.

    I really see Episode II and beyond going to new levels. I really do.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah that is for one thing I am looking forward too, theses rehash levels are soso to watch (because obvioulsy we have seen it before), but I am looking forward to seeing what new and interesting levels crop up. Id like to see one with like a raw electricity theme with storm clouds, lighting rods and huge towering vandergraph generators in the background.

    And its nice to be back again after being sharked in the early stages 7days ago lol I did make a comic detailing it back then, but I recon posting it here now would warrent a swift ban XD

    Aww man, just noticed, will that 20% warn ever go away? I feel like a crook ^^;
     
  18. LOst

    LOst

    Tech Member
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    I have finally seen the full game, so why not post my thoughts about it?

    I don't like it!

    Let me remind you that I love Sonic 1, Sonic 2, and Sonic 3 with all my heart!

    So why not love Sonic 4?
    First of all, I am not falling for the marketing. It was cheap from the beginning, and very misleading. If a Sonic game is good enough, it should be able to stand on its own feet.
    Second of all, the decision to make Sonic 4 into a downloadable title instead of a boxed product simular to New Super Mario Bros Wii shows that Sonic Team and Sega doesn't give the same amount of love to a Sonic game as they used to.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Sonic 4 is based on a concept that was invented for Sonic Advance 2. An (internally) invisible square known as an autoboost is the core element in the level design. Touch it and you will be sent off in a direction of Dimps' choosing.
    Such gameplay is very good when the player is known as dense, and needs constant direction changes to find his/her way through the act.
    I am not one of those people who need the direction told!

    The very moment people realizes autoboost is the wrong idea for Sonic's level design, is when they automatically end up into an enemy, losing all their rings:
    [​IMG]

    What about the music?
    The music of Sonic 4 is too short! Plane repetitive actually.
    I remember when I thought Sonic CD's Wackey Workbench Bad Future (JP/EU) was too short because you could hear it fade out after a minute of play. Sonic 4's music can be as short as 24 seconds for a full level (the Final level in this case)! Even when it is that short, it feels shorter yet, because there are more or less 2 sections in the music, and one of them is probably the intro.
    Would you like to have just the intro for Angel Island play over and over for the whole Sonic 3 Angel Island act?
    No!

    What about the engine?
    LOL!

    At the very end of the game, you get to see the staff roll, and at the very top of it is the man behind this game: <!--coloro:#000000--><span style="color:#000000"><!--/coloro-->Iizuka[/COLOR].
    I would like to remind everyone that this guy worked on Sonic 3. And I think Sonic 4 serves as proof that he wasn't DA MAN behind Sonic 3.

    <!--coloro:#000000--><span style="color:#000000"><!--/coloro-->This game is clearly not for me, as you can see :rolleyes:
    And my comment on the engine is "that short" because we have all been through that discussion already.[/COLOR]
     
  19. Guess Who

    Guess Who

    It's a miracle! Oldbie
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    lol
    <!--quoteo(post=438832:date=Apr 7 2010, 07:33 AM:name=LOst)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LOst @ Apr 7 2010, 07:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438832">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At the very end of the game, you get to see the staff roll, and at the very top of it is the man behind this game: <!--coloro:#000000--><span style="color:#000000"><!--/coloro-->Iizuka[/COLOR].
    I would like to remind everyone that this guy worked on Sonic 3. And I think Sonic 4 serves as proof that he wasn't DA MAN behind Sonic 3.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I doubt Iizuka really had much of a hand in this, either. He's credited as Producer, sure, but if Naka is anything to by, that means he's more involved in managing the project than actually developing it. I mean, the last Sonic game he was credited on outside of the Special Thanks section was Sonic Rivals 2. I imagine that much like Naka before he left, he's been moved so far up the developer bureaucracy that he doesn't deal so directly with the games anymore.
     
  20. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    <!--quoteo(post=438791:date=Apr 7 2010, 04:01 AM:name=Scartillery)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scartillery @ Apr 7 2010, 04:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438791">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My opinion.
    Doesn't look like Rush in any way shape or form. I do not see any resemblances....at all. Rush had poor momentum physics, this game has momentum physics, which aren't broken.
    The jump looks a little off but not utterly terrible. I think that just claiming it as "Rush HD", is not really a good standpoint, as they don't simmilar, in the slightest.
    I don't really see any justifications for saying that it has a shit engine. I haven't played it, so I don't know, and likeyhood is that hardly anyone else has, so they can't really comment on it. We shall see, when we shall see.
    Art direction is fine in my opinion, lots of bright colours and varied level designs. If you don't like it, your taste is different to mine.
    I don't think its OK to just judge the game as....ahem...."one of the worst games SEGA has shat out, because we have no way of knowing. The guy playing it seemed like a moron, who may have lacked skill in the 2D sidescrolling deal, so it may have made it look worse than it actually is (Trust me, I cam make the Mega Drive games look broken, thats how bad I am at them). However, this is just my opinion.

    Take as is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Shall we point out the engine similarities between Sonic Rush and Sonic 4 again?

    That's not a matter of oppinion, those are facts we're dealing with.
     
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