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The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Scarred Sun, Apr 7, 2010.

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  1. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    They're not. That scenario never happened, and that's why it's a terrible example.
     
  2. Effexor

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    I tihink maybe this would be a better example?

    [​IMG]

    EX 1) You jump on the platform and it carries you across.
    EX 2) You HA the badnik floating above the moving platform, and you need to time it so you land on said platform. It doesn't take you all the way across, but brings you in range of another badnik for you to HA to the other side.
    EX 3) BADNIK BRIDGE :specialed:
     
  3. glem3

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    We only know of ONE time on one path that the homing attack was mandatory. And technically you could do it without if you timed it well. It was in Mad Gear zone. I never saw it anywhere else.

    Hopefully they will change that. But honestly, right now I like how the homing attack is being used. According to the people who played the newest version, the homing dash (with no enemies) is more like the dash when you tap the D pad twice in the advance series, and actually using the homing attack on enemies is slower than just bouncing on them, but bouncing on them takes more skill. So essentially, homing attack = slower but easy, bouncing = faster but harder.

    And the weird thing is you don't jump through enemies without the homing attack, you bounce even if you hit it from underneath! It's really weird.
     
  4. Polygon Jim

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    All the bitches.


    Actually many more than that, but you'll see in the final game when you buy it, unless they actually fix it. Every level has at least one path you are forced to do it or you get hurt by the enemys.
     
  5. Effexor

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    Really? I can only count three. SH3, CS1 or 3, I don't remember which one, and MG1. LL MIGHT have had one, but Act 3 cut out before the end ofthe level.
     
  6. BuffaloWilder

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    ...why is it bad that there are parts of a level where you have to use a certain move to progress? Every Sonic game - every game, ever - has had this, why does this surprise you, come on now.
     
  7. Effexor

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    I think it's more than the fact that it's a Homing Attack chain. It's a Homing Attack chain in a 2D game.
     
  8. ICEknight

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    ...I don't know what you mean. If by "a certain move" you include "jumping" and "running", then I don't think it's a fair comparison.


    The special attacks in Sonic 3 were limited to being power-ups for a reason, and the homing attack is even more powerful than all of those combined. They were a reward for exploring with success, just like Super Sonic is a reward for completing the Special Stages, but granting Sonic those abilities by default would have indeed broken the game.
     
  9. Blue Blood

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    They're no more imaginative than badnik chains. I would have thought it was obvious that it was an example showing player intervention. Rather than actually having to do something, you just double tap A to win. It's overly simple.
     
  10. Spanner

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    I find the Homing Attack to be an excessive item used in this game. The badnik chains are obnoxious and if you don't home into them, you get hurt. I'm not bothered about Modern Sonic being in the game, the quality is just poor.

    The problem is that Sega promoted this as a sequel to the classics when it doesn't play like the classics, as well as it just being refreshed things from the Mega Drive games. Then you have them handing the game to Dimps rather than having it done in-house by Sonic Team. Just because they worked on Sonic Advance, Rush, Unleashed and Pocket Adventure doesn't mean that they'd do a good job on Sonic 4. This game suffers due to their work. You have the horrible physics, bad level design and the excessive speed boosters. Last time I checked, boosters weren't in every level of the classic games.

    The game was never designed to focus solely on the retro players. They had to include elements that modern gamers have seen in Sonic games. It's not Sonic 4 as you truly imagined it, it's what SEGA and Dimps imagined it as. They say they're changing the product, but it'll just be minimal things. Sonic Team had a suitable engine that could have been worked on for S4, they chose to hand the game over to Dimps because they thought that their previous work was fine. If they cared about this game, it would have been a full, physical release with decent gameplay that would please many. Instead, you're getting something else and an iPhone port.

    At least the game was leaked and wasn't released in June. Otherwise, the product would have been pissed on by many.
     
  11. Guess Who

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    I'm sorry, I still don't understand how jumping on ascending platforms is considerably more involving than homing attacking badniks. You just tap A and hold right to win. Seems to me like some people are exaggerating the difficulty or skill involved in classic Sonic obstacles to make Sonic 4 look simpler in comparison.

    Seriously, there's nothing inherently wrong with homing attack chains, and if you were forced to climb a wall as Knuckles or fly over an obstacle as Tails no one would give a shit. They gave Sonic a move, they're putting in reasons to use it. If anything, if they wanted people to stop seeing the homing attack as EASY MODE, they'd come up with more ways to use it creatively to get through levels.
     
  12. Tobibrocki

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    Sorry for hopping in, but, this is just my 2 cents on the matter of homing attack chains:

    I think people are just annoyed by the homing attack chains, they've seen them in the 3D Games quite a bit, so, I assume their hunger is gone and they simply cannot see it anymore.
    You know, its like a Wallpaper on your Desktop, you have it on there for a couple months, but sooner or later, you wanna change it since you've seen enough of it.
    Dumb example I know, but, thats just my theory on why people here are against them.

    As for me, I wouldn't mind a few less chains, but in the end its the devs decision, and if it stays the way it is, then I have to live with that and make the best out of it, there's really not much more to say!
     
  13. Sparks

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    You know what I noticed in the leaked videos? 3 only ever happened at the end of an act, usually Act 3.
     
  14. Blue Blood

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    No, there's nothing inherently wrong with HA chains. The example I showed was an absolute barebones one. The thing is they are so often used where different methods of exploration could be put in instead.
    [​IMG]

    Is that any better? Top picture has moving platforms that require some timing from the player where as the bottom is a mash-fest. Having a homing chain here and there is perfectly fine. There's one part near the bottom of SHZ1 where you go off a ramp and if you use the homing attack you can grab some speed shoes. That's fine, but it's just overused. Those end of act sections are where the game is trying to make you get hit and fail at the last possible moment.
     
  15. Roller

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    The problem with homing attack is that it was designed for the 3D games, where it is much harder to adjust your chosen speed character (also talking about games in where Shadow and Espio are playable) to bop the badnik. This is much less true in the 2D world, where you do not have to worry about hitting it in an extra dimension. To include the homing attack, although perhaps workable as an evolution of the Flame shield (which would be pretty much worthless in Sonic 4 if both were kept as is), is to take out that risk and reward system that many of us enjoy so much - requiring no precision, simply the mashing of a button.

    The same can also be applied to boosters - taking out the risk and reward of running at high speeds and amassing your own momentum. The numerous differences in the physics engine stops us from using gravity to gain momentum in U shaped valleys, as seen in the Spring Yard and Casino Night zones.

    Platforming IS quite a simplistic addition to the game, as Guess Who stated, but it is what was part of the original experience of the Sonic games we know and love, and many are reluctant to see that major change to the gameplay. There's nothing wrong with homing attack in a world where it's more likely NOT to hit an enemy from above, but when it's already quite easy yet still rewarding to bop a badnik, gamers don't want a crutch - even if they don't have to use it, they may feel like they are being treated like they can't play the game properly without it.

    I sort of agree with Blue Blood. Homing attack COULD work in a 2D realm if it wasn't a right, but a privilege. I also agree that it is not bad, but it is USED bad. And I agree with SOTI about how SEGA don't seem to care about Sonic 4 (Save for RubyEclipse). Never-the-less, I am still pleased with Sonic 4 as a whole so far, even if some aspects are sort of dissapointing.
     
  16. Deef

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    A shield move I could swallow, but there's no way to make the homing attack a default move in 2D without shifting the classic gameplay over to something else.

    Meanwhile, I can't think of any homing attack gameplay I've seen that looks compelling. The situations aren't imaginative at all, the move plays itself. There's nothing (I've seen) in Sonic 4 that wasn't already trivial-easy, or old, by the time SA2 came around.

    The game takes over and I get bored. What a great addition.
     
  17. Guess Who

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    The problem I have here is that I haven't seen any use of homing chains that covers such a large amount of the path. Seems to me like the game uses homing chains in addition to moving platforms, not in place of them. And this?

    There are precisely two acts with badnik chains near the end, and in all the footage I've seen, they seem near impossible to die to. In fact, in Casino Street Zone 3, the player in the video I'm watching repeatedly dies from missing floating platforms (stationary ones, at that), not the badnik chain, which has a spring and a 1-up below it for protection and is at one point jumped across without using the homing attack at all.
     
  18. serpx

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    Personally, I wish SEGA would ditch the homing attack, and make it a power-up item.
     
  19. RankoChan

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    Some random RPG project.
    That would be kinda interesting as an ability given to you by a shield similiar to the elemental shield bounce, double jump, and air slash moves. It would make it a much more welcome addition in my opinion.
     
  20. serpx

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    Plus, it'd hopefully make developers get rid of the forceful "the only way to continue is to homing attack" design.
     
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