The "Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles" Quest for Music Composer Research

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by T.Q., Nov 18, 2019.

  1. PhotonSeek

    PhotonSeek

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    Azure Lake wasn't an MJ crew composition, though. It appears in Sonic 3 Prototype and Sonic & Knuckles Collection, and it has more in common with the Sega/Cube tracks.
     
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  2. sonicthesnot

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    I've always thought that Azure Lake was straight up MJ. Also Marble Garden has a straight up 100% MJ feel to it. Act 2 of Marble Garden zone also has a similar "flavor" to Act 2 of Ice Cap, Carnival Night, and Launch Base - it feels like a more subdued, quieter version of Act 1 rather than a remix.
     
  3. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

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  4. Laura

    Laura

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    The Sonic 3 Knuckles' theme is supposed to resemble the back beat of 'Blood on the Dance Floor' not 'Ghosts'.

    That said, I think making comparisons like this is too subjective without concrete evidence. The vocal sample of 'Jam' which features in Carnival Night backs up that the tune served as the basis for the song.

    It's surely a MJ team song, but we don't know for certain that it serves as the basis for Blood on the Dance Floor.
     
  5. A link to the exact track was provided to her, check right above the linked tweet.
     
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  6. sonicthesnot

    sonicthesnot

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    I must be missing the link. I only see a link to Chrome Gadget Zone.
     
  7. muteKi

    muteKi

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    The thing that is absolutely killing me here is that if you asked me if I thought the same person composed Marble Garden and one bonus stage theme in game, I'd say yes,noting that MGZ and specifically the Glowing Spheres bonus stage have a lot in common, especially with the simulated rhythm guitar, since they're the only tracks to have that sort of technique and the jazz-funk scale they're built around. And yet while she does positively offer confirmation of MGZ (which I guess is a little suspect given that I don't see MGZ linked in that twitter conversaion -- though based on how the soundtrack was probably done I'd be surprised if she mentioned the specific stage name unless she knew it was her music in it), she says she DIDN'T do any of the 3 bonus stages in the game.
     
  8. BinBowie

    BinBowie

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    I just want to note, some of the vocal samples from Sonic 3 came from Norman Cook's "Skip to My Loops" sample library.


    (At 1:34 and 1:53 respectively)

    If you listen to some of the other samples you'll also notice quite a few were also used in Sonic CD, Sonic Rush, and the Jet Set Radio games, but I digress.

    EDIT: Damn, I didn't read a couple pages back. I didn't realize I said something that has already been stated. Feel free to delete this post.
     
  9. NeoFusionBox

    NeoFusionBox

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    By the way in OP, shouldn't be Balloon Park credited by Jun Senoue? Since Sonic Generations clearly are credtiing him for the original composition.
     
  10. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    Where is that credit documented? on the soundtrack CD?
     
  11. NeoFusionBox

    NeoFusionBox

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    Yes, from both "SONIC GENERATIONS ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK BLUE BLUR" and "SONIC GENERATIONS OFFICIAL SOUNDTRACK Vol.2". I decided to check that myself, and apparently it's the only Sonic (3) & Knuckles remix that are crediting Jun Senoue; the others Sonic 3 / & Knuckles remixes have only "SEGA" credited. Which is kinda weird, to be honest.

    Edit: VGMdb have a similar thread with this one as well. Not sure, but might could have some information there that can be useful for us? This thread is very old though, so it may have some outdated information. But still dropping that here just in case.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  12. Naean

    Naean

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    And this person apparently recorded the tracks on a "VA3 Sega Genesis Model 1".
     
  13. Chibisteven

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    It seems accurate as there's a few ways to tell. Later Model 1s such as the VA6 seem to have more 15 KHz scan rate noise from the video circuit bleeding into the audio than earlier model 1s like the VA3, it may not survive some lossy codecs though. Also you can hear the distinctive noise that a real YM2612 makes as well as stereo cross-talk in something recorded from those board revisions. The final thing is one needs is access to the lossless original if it exists is phase errors and the YM2612 being slightly off to left or right channel from time to time with a center panned instrument depending on what it is doing either audibly (typically survives in lossy codecs) or inaudibly (often doesn't survive lossy codecs).

    Some model 2's such as the VA2 and VA2.3 have discrete YM2612s but they suffer volume balance problems such as the YM2612 being too loud compared to everything else. These can be fixed with a modification such as the Mega Amp.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  14. Meat Miracle

    Meat Miracle

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    Back when the first youtube videos came out comparing icecap to MJ music, I read through the HIStory CD booklet, and I'm sure I found all those names in there, including Scirocco. He was definitely part of MJs team.
     
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  15. Despatche

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    It's pretty funny how this or that person is thoroughly convinced that this or that Sega song is "definitely MJ". The only MJ-related songs in this game are extremely obvious because they sound fundamentally different from the entire rest of the soundtrack. Absolutely zero of the other songs in Sonic 3 sound anything like the MJ-related stuff, especially not Marble Garden of all things. The MJ-related songs even have elaborate samples that, by the way, take up a good bit of space.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  16. Loop

    Loop

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    I read through all of the versions of HIStory listed on Discogs, Cirocco doesn’t appear credited in any of them. The rest of the Music Composers on Sonic 3’s credits are indeed credited on HIStory... and even so, Cirocco doesn’t mention any MJ album on his website, just that he was commissioned to make music for Sonic 3 by MJ, and collaborating with Brad Buxer.

    I’m not saying he was not part of MJ’s team, he admitted to have written cues for “levels 2 & 3”, one of which entitled “The Water”... out of the 41 tracks mentioned by Buxer on the most recent interview only a very few got selected for the final game, none of which were Cirocco’s.
     
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  17. Chibisteven

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    I have to wonder about this dude. Is he just a producer of the MJ team credited as a composer as a simple error or something else entirely?
     
  18. Loop

    Loop

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    Well, they credited him as he did work on cues for the game but they went completely unused. Simple as that.
     
  19. Chibisteven

    Chibisteven

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    Figures. The guy who's work goes ultimately unused but still gets credit in the game itself is probably the one causing all the trouble? Wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.
     
  20. Alexbt

    Alexbt

    I rock harder than j00. Oldbie
    So the way I'm looking at it, these are all people who worked for MJ. They worked on his albums and played in his band. They could and probably are all directly responsible for composing or creating the elements in the game. Even if MJ did end up releasing a song that used some of these elements, it's definitely possible that MJ did not actually write said riffs or create said samples personally.

    As someone who plays in a band and plays keyboards, this makes perfect sense to me. While one member of the band may have written the song, we still write our own parts. In the case of MJ, these collaborators could have even written all of this music as fragments for MJ to develop on. How much do we know about MJ's actual songwriting and demo process. Did he play any instruments? (And what would say more is if he ever played any instruments on his own songs or if he always hired out)

    I think it's very respectable that all the team members were still credited.
    And it really may be technically true that MJ didn't personally write any of this material, simply that his team members did and they were credited accordingly.
     
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