The "Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles" Quest for Music Composer Research

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by T.Q., Nov 18, 2019.

Choose your favorite soundtrack version:

  1. Sonic The Hedgehog 3 -- Prototype / PC

  2. Sonic The Hedgehog 3 -- Mega Drive / Sega Genesis

  3. Sonic [3] & Knuckles -- Mega Drive / Sega Genesis

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Just those two songs? Really? We KNOW they can use HCZ, MGZ, FBZ, SOZ, LRZ, SSZ and probably DEZ, and also tbh I’m a little sad they didn’t acknowledge the prototype
  2. Loop


    Pure of Heart. Dumb of Ass. Member

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  3. Hello everyone.. the most interesting topic of discussion for me is Sonic 3’s legal situation with the music and I wanted to see where the situation stands as of 2020 so I decided to send a DM out to Cirocco Jones.. after 5 months, I shockingly got a response and this is what was said:


    So to sum it up: Cirocco states that SEGA still owes the team money, but what’s interesting is the numbers he gave (60,000 downloads and retro sales) and if I’m reading it correctly, they didn’t work on the game as a “work for hire” team so they didn’t sign their rights over to SEGA. I apologize if this was already known but I would like to get everyone’s take on this latest update. I would love to dissect this with all of you.
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  4. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

    I'm really surprised that he would answer such a question from a random fan with this kind of detail. This sort of thing can harm legal cases. Not to be a douche, but is there any way to validify this?

    Also obligatory mention; don't anyone else go asking Jones or anyone else involved for details.
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  5. Wafer


    Find me on Twitter instead Member
    Did we really need a whole new thread for this when there's an ongoing thread for info about S3 composers right next to this thread in the listing?
  6. This is one of the only links I found and it’s a download, but this is the sonic 3 and knuckles album.

    it may be the wrong one though. I don’t exactly know however.
  7. Loop


    Pure of Heart. Dumb of Ass. Member
    Totally different and unofficial.
  8. Yeah I know it doesn’t make me look good that I even asked him (trust me I’m not that kind of person). To me it was just an honest leap of faith and I wasn’t expecting anything but I was surprised too when he responded.

    As for validity, I don’t recall how but his name popped up on my FB, so I checked it out and his website is linked to his profile where you can buy his book and check out his previous works, etc.
  9. My apologies I did want to post it on the composer research thread but I was having issues with posting replies for some reason so I just decided to do a new thread
  10. Pretty random question (I’m sorry if this has been mentioned already) but does anyone have a source/link to where it was stated that the PC tracks also have legal issues? I heard that Iizuka mentioned the PC tracks issue in an interview but I don’t remember where.

    I always assumed that SEGA owns those tunes.
  11. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

    Why can't they just pay them, or at least buy the rights? Sega is a big, successful company. They reported an operating income of over ¥14 billion last year. This wouldn't cost them that much. If anything, just sitting on it and letting legal fees stack up is far more dangerous.

    Oh well. At least Sonic 3 DID get rereleased and had some grace period before it got stuck in legal hell. I'm still waiting for a proper GoldenEye rerelease even though it's probably never going to happen.
  12. Loop


    Pure of Heart. Dumb of Ass. Member
    You can own all the tracks you want and still go through legal issues, in this case, it is most likely regarding royalties to the songwriters in MJ's team that had their songs snubbed in the game.
  13. Yeah, I don't think he would have told you that if he knew it was going to be posted on a public forum.

    Interesting info, and I know you had the best intentions, but I don't think making private messages like that public is the greatest idea OP.
  14. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

    1. SEGA claim that they have the rights and shouldn't have to pay.
    2. SEGA claim that they have already paid everything owed.
    3. If SEGA lose, they may have to pay damages and an increased fee in the future (if they're even allowed to use the music at all).
    4. It could be argued that SEGA aren't allowed to re-release S3 in the past and profited illegitimately.
    5. The rights aren't for sale/SEGA aren't willing to fork out the money that's being asked for.
    Take your pick. They'd all guesses and possible to my understanding. If it was just an issue of paying them and getting the situation "over and done with", it wouldn't be dragging on like this. To re-release S3 with the prototype sound track could also be seen as an admission of guilt, so there's that too.
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  15. Yes I agree 100%.. I only posted it to show that it was indeed a legitimate conversation because I don’t think anyone would have believed me if I just typed out the quote.

    And yeah trust me, I only had the best intentions for sure. This whole mystery to this day still has more questions than answers.
  16. I always wondered why SEGA didn’t mention back in ‘97 that the PC tracks were actually original prototype tracks as like a fun fact in the manual for S&K collection. I’m sure the tunes wouldn’t have gotten that much hate if this was public knowledge in ‘97 and not in 2019.

    Yes it would have raised the question of why were the other songs replaced but does anyone else think things would be different if we knew the reality back then?
  17. Yeah I’m pretty sure it’s royalties, but I wasn’t aware it was for songs that did NOT make the final game as well.
  18. Loop


    Pure of Heart. Dumb of Ass. Member
    No, you got it wrong. It's much more complicated - Sega / Wave Master are not allowed to talk much about Sonic 3 (& Knuckles) because of the involvement of MJ's team being troublesome for them. They only release tracks that were written by Sega Sound Team but cannot disclose who wrote it due to the circumstances, it seems - Angel Island, Hydrocity, Mushroom Hill, Blue Spheres, Balloon Lake, Endless Mine, Game Over have all gotten released or featured outside the game.
  19. Yes true.. we can add Flying Battery, Lava Reef, and Sky Sanctuary to the list since each one was featured either in Mania or Generations.. im sure Death Egg and Sandopolis are fine as well.. the whole S&K half was composed by Drossin I believe so it’s mainly the Sonic 3 half with all the problems
  20. Agobue


    Companies like SEGA generally don't become "big" and "successful" by being generous with their money.