The "Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles" Quest for Music Composer Research

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by T.Q., Nov 18, 2019.

  1. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    I just realized we have a good candidate for proto Launch Base Act 1: Tonomori Sawada.

    He confirmed he composed Crystal Egg (S2 SMS), which basically got remixed into proto/PC Ice Cap (S3).
    He also confirmed he composed the S3 Title theme and its related jingles, like Invincibility.

    Then we have proto/PC Launch Base 1. (Act 2 is probably a rearrangement by M. Nagao, he confirmed to have rearranged Hidrocity Act 2, but not Act 1).

    Let's compare:

    Proto/PC Ice Cap
    ✔️ Almost monotone bassline
    ✔️ Simple percussion

    S3 Invincibility
    ✔️ Almost monotone bassline
    ✔️ Simple percussion

    Proto/PC Launch Base Act 1
    ✔️ Almost monotone bassline
    ✔️ Simple percussion

    Even his confirmed contribution to Golden Axe III follows the same pattern.
    ✔️ Almost monotone bassline
    ✔️ Simple percussion

    He was a novice composer at the time, though, which might explain this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
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  2. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    The “GO” indicates that it’s fitting for the last Zone of Sonic 3 in a more encouraging way than the “Victory” intro of the proto. My only complaint about the final music is the laziness of Act 2’s composition.
     
  3. SyntaxTsu

    SyntaxTsu

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    So if we have a good idea for the unused theme, proto ICZ and proto LBZ, that leaves proto CNZ, the competition menu and the credits menu themes unknown.
     
  4. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    The proto/PC credits theme sounds like Maeda. (Same composer as Panic Puppet on 3D blast)

    HCz2 (not Act 1) is confirmed to be M. Nagao, if we consider that 'style' we have: LBz2, AIz1, AIz2, CNz1, CNz2 and proto competition.

    Yes, M. Nagao seems to be the man behind most of the S3 soundtrack.
     
  5. Ch1pper

    Ch1pper

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    Is this your assumption or is there anything concrete to back that up? Nothing about one screams "this is totally a remix!" of the other to me. I find more plausibility in that fanwank of Bridge Zone being a remix of that one Janet Jackson song.
     
  6. Afro Thunder

    Afro Thunder

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    Trying to get outta Dr. Dre mode, and actually release an album.
    I've seen people compare them, but never saw anyone in their right mind claim that Janet's "Together Again" was the inspiration of Bridge Zone. But I digress.

    I agree with Master Emerald's theory that all of those tracks seem to match Sawada's style at the time. Even if it's somewhat of a stretch, it's not a massive one, since all of his tracks seem to follow those patterns M.E. pointed out.
     
  7. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    Sure, you can just listen to this comparison of the lead part.

    Verses
    ✔️Same key
    ✔️Same melody hooks
    ✔️Same structure

    The chorus (at the end) doesn't align perfectly but that's because it evolved but the elements that were present in the 8 bit game are still there, listen to this other comparison:

    ✔️Same key
    ✔️Similar melody hooks
    Different structure

    So this song was made by someone who knew Crystal Egg and used it as base. It happens to match other songs we know are from Sawada too, so it's just natural to have him a possible composer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
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  8. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Anybody who knew their Sonic would know Crystal Egg when Sonic 3 was being made, and we're talking about somebody working at SEGA, in a Sonic game.
     
  9. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    Well considering it's a hidden level on a game not made by SEGA (remember, it was outsourced to Aspect), there is a great possibility. And of course, with the original composer for Crystal Egg being on the two games, the more obvious candidate is the guy who composed it, as it was the case with Green Hills/You can do Anything.

    But of course, there's the possibility somebody else loved Sawada's work on it and tried to remake it on the MD, like Jun Senoue's remix of Super Fantasy Zone's 'Picnic' for Sonic 3D Blast. But then again, in my opinion, the composition credits shouldn't change just because somebody remixed it. That's why we have the 'arrangement' credit for.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  10. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    I think the Sonic 3 proto theme is definitely based upon Crystal Egg to a certain extent, but it's also been changed up a lot and turned into a different song.

    I don't think we can say for certain that it was made by Sawada. Anyone could built upon it.
     
  11. Ch1pper

    Ch1pper

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    Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. The Green Hills/YCDA comparison is obvious just from hearing them. So is Hard Times/Final Ice Cap.
    This is... not. You have to layer one on top of the other, or twist them around to make them sort-of fit together... until they don't because the chords change. To me that's a hole in your theory. Not to mention the differences that would go into composing music on an 8-bit system versus a 16-bit system. Unless it's a very deliberate attempt (again like YCDA) these two just sound like two completely different songs to me. :(
     
  12. sonicthesnot

    sonicthesnot

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    Has anyone seen the credits roll for the Sonic 3 Beta? If so, who are the composers listed? Is it still Buxer and company , despite there being no MJ music in the beta? I've seen the credits theme a bunch of times but never the credits roll.
     
  13. Remember, every “unused” beta song in s3 is in the S&K collection on PC, so if you want music credits i recommend looking at the credits for that instead
     
  14. sonicthesnot

    sonicthesnot

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    The manual only credits the sound arrangers - and if it were that simple, this mystery wouldn't be going on for 20+ years now...

    IMO it's possible the "real" composer credits are in the S3 beta, since that beta didn't have the MJ music.
     
  15. ...Interesting. I mean I only managed to beat s&k collection somehow while my mental sanity was degrading, but my mental sanity was too, TOO low to see any credit differences.
     
  16. muteKi

    muteKi

    Fuck it Member
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    The credits for S&K Collection are identical to the Genesis version
     
  17. Loop

    Loop

    Pure of Heart. Dumb of Ass. Member
    SEGA released another compilation album, and it includes Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Wow! Angel Island Act 1 and Mushroom Hill Act 1.

    However, I can't put my finger on what's going on here. Both tracks sound like tthey have a channel out of sync and with some sort distortion. I'd like to see you'll thoughts on this. @[email protected]

    They didn't specify writers on those two songs, which are the only ones in the album with songwriting credits to just "SEGA". Hmph.
     
  18. Is this first time we have 16-Bits / Mega Drive Sonic song on a Spotify album?

    Also, was very surprised to see Green Groove from Sonic 3D Blast included.
     
  19. sonicthesnot

    sonicthesnot

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    I would love to see the Sonic 3 Beta (the most recent one without MJ music) credits.... anyone know how to see them?
     
  20. T.Q.

    T.Q.

    The Sims 2, Tim Drake [Robin] Member
    Do you have a link to the album? I'd like to see what it looks like.