The Sonic Frontiers *SPOILER* Thread (With Unmarked Spoilers)

Spoiler

Well, I'd disagree that the Echidnas are descendants of the ancients simply due to knowing about the Master Emerald, but that's neither here nor there. Given that the ancients were, simply put, water aliens, keeping the koco in their chests may have just been like wearing them. As they evolved and adapted to their environment, they became more solid, eventually reaching a point where keeping the koco within themselves was just no longer possible.

 

Considering that all instances of Ancients being Koco are after The End attacked the Starfall settlements, Shouldn't it be closer to a thing where the Koco, in their current state, are walking graves of the ancients that are to pass on once their goal is fulfilled? iir this was mentioned in the game somewhere, unless I forgot something. Considering how most of the cutscenes directly show the ancients being wiped out by lasers (The first flashback with Amy, specifically,) I don't really sit with the idea that the ancients on the Starfall Islands simply evolved INTO the Koco

 

I wasn’t trying to say that they did. Yes, the koco are effectively a vessel of the lingering thoughts of the ancients which seem to be “worn” by them. However, when the ancients migrated from the Starfall Islands, over time they became different life forms all together. Even the Chao have solid form, unlike Chaos and the ancients. Ergo, at some point they would’ve no longer been able to “wear” the koco inside their chests, so the proposed conundrum of the ancients evolving into echidnas and having koco stuck in their chests is a non-issue.

 

I'm not sure I see the connection.

I'm going to clarify my proposed theory by saying that I think any of the animals in the Adventure games that can be taken to the Chao Garden to change your Chao could be said to have had a similar evolutionary decline to the Chao. My example of Bats is there because you have "real" bats, the Small Animal bats you can take to the Chao Garden, and Rouge the bat, who I don't really wanna say is related in the same way.

I'm also iffy on bringing the "classic" animals, Flickies, etc, but it's all just an idea that would help simplify the animals situation.

 

Was mostly a joke, but I will now explain it.

Maybe I should have said 'monkeys' instead of 'chimpanzees'. Regardless, evolutionary theory is commonly misunderstood as implying that humans evolved from monkeys and chimpanzees. When the reality is that humans and chimpanzees simply share a common ancestor -- two groups split from this common ancestor, and evolved into humans and chimpanzees respectively. The same is true of the relationship between humans and monkeys (or more specifically, the relationship between the aforementioned human-chimpanzee last-common-ancestor, and monkeys).

Now, the human-chimpanzee last-common-ancestor probably did look a lot more similar to chimpanzees as they are today than humans as they are today, the same being true for the last-commmon-ancestor between humans and monkeys. So if one wanted to be imprecise with their language, they could basically say "humans evolved from monkeys/chimpanzees".

Characters like Sonic and Rouge are anthropomorphic animals, meaning they have human characteristics. Monkeys and chimpanzees would be to you or I, what a normal hedgehog or bat would be to Sonic or Rouge: animals of the same type but without human characteristics. I guess another comparison could be Pluto on the one hand, and Goofy on the other hand. At least insofar as both bats as they appear in our world, and Rouge the Bat, both developed on the same planet.

We're not really wanting for an explanation for why there are both bats as they appear in our world, and Rouge the Bat, in the same 'tree of life', anymore than we're wanting for an explanation for why there are both monkeys and humans in the same tree of life. The bats you give your Chao and Rouge probably each represent two groups that split from common ancestry long, long ago.

The real question is what sort of ecological selection pressure would have influenced several different animal species to develop a human-like form (given our human-like form is ultimately rooted in that of monkeys, which is rooted in that of primates, etc.). I guess it's not impossible, though, since convergent evolution is a thing.

Two easy other solutions are: the anthropomorphic animals all evolved on another planet and simply came here (not a thing anymore), or radiation did it as others have suggested (nuclear testing like in the old lore, magical Emeralds, etc.). Maybe it's multiple things, and radiation from the emeralds provided the selection pressure. But either way, we're actually not even in need of a fantasy explanation. Evolutionary theory alone has it covered.

 

Animals evolve human-like characteristic so they don't get eaten

 

Instead they’ll eat others

*So many Porkys going into Sonic’s chili dogs

 

Don't be sad, they died for a good cause

 

As I said I was more focused on the Chao bats and the actual, real-life bats in Death Chamber etc. the "real" animals next to Sonic's "cartoon" animals, although now I see that how I wrote that didn't make it clear that "real" bats are different from the ones you take to the Chao garden, so it seems like I'm calling those "real" bats and then comparing them to Rouge. My mistake.
Still, I appreciate the explanation.

 

*Frees Porky from badnik
Porky: I’m saved! And free!
Sonic: I wouldn’t say freed, more like, under new management



I finally watched megamind on Sunday btw, I liked it, particularly how megamind pronounced metro city “metrocity”

 

Oh, gotcha. I didn't catch that you were distinguishing between the Small Animals and 'real' animals, that's on me. I never really gave that much thought, since most of them look pretty much like the normal animals, but the Chao Garden bats are definitely unrealistic, cartoony animals; feels almost like real life animals also existing in the Pokemon universe. Definitely an additional layer of distinction to be made there. And in a game that also introduces Rouge, meaning there are three different types of "bats" coexisting at once!

 

I always figured the Small Animals were flickies, just in a different art style, though I suppose they exist alongside Amy's Bird don't they?

 

Close to finishing my second playthrough (100%, again). More food for thoughts!

• I like how Frontiers lets you cheese through loop de loops. You don’t gain extra speed, but you can save time, which is a good compromise.
• Cyberspace benefits greatly from the music. Sometimes I don't like the track that is playing, but enjoy playing the level, sometimes it's the other way around. Cyberspace is best when both elements are on point. Honourable mention to the SA2, Generations and the new, more experimental ones.*
• The cutscenes feel so much more natural in English, it's mind-boggling. Why is this?
• Rhea and Ouranos could have been a bit more unique in their visuals. What we got might fit more to the plot, sure, but come on, it's a video game! Let me have this red, Cyberspace corrupted background on Rhea and something more surreal, almost dreamlike (rainbows!) on Ouranos!
• The camera in Cyberspace could really lean a bit more into adjusting to different playstyles. The boost is so versatile! Let me play around with it without questioning my ability to hold a controller!
• The weather effects and day and night cycle are great! The game wouldn't be the same without them.

*Edit: +Savannah Citadel

I like the game a lot, but what about the sequel? Please strike a good balance between its strengths and the things that are straight-out fun.

 

The game script was written in English.

 

It wasn't the voice acting or the dialogue alone, it was their execution that was oh so flawed. They need to make sure that this naturality carries over to other languages.

 

I don't think I like what the Kocos represent in the story. It makes their cutesyness and merchandising come off incredibly strangely. It also makes me wonder what the hell these guys are doing wandering around in so many weird places, and why you have to collect them and bring them back to their elder.

 

The world is full of stuff like this though. Like Ring Around the Rosie actually being about the Black Plague.

I mean, you see the elder in flashbacks and he is just taking care of the last generation. Elder Koco himself even says he no longer remembers his name or what purpose he might have had, he just wants to take care of the Koco.

 

They're talismans or charms that were created by the Ancients. And somehow they came to hold the wishes and desires of their bearers. Sonic and Co help them move on by fulfilling their duties. I think it's quite nice. Sad, but nice storytelling. They've become like spirits.

The Koco are cute. And as for why they're all over the islands, they simply represent the Ancients as they fell. Knuckles and a Chao find a Koco shell in Sky Sanctuary in the prequel short, which lives up well with the rest of the games events. The Elder and Hermit are a bit less clear, although the Elder did mention his both he and the rest of the Koco have forgotten their purpose.

Interestingly enough, that's actually not true. The meaning of the rhyme is unknown, but it's nowhere near as old as The Black Death. That comes from a modern interpretation post-WWII.

 

It's extremely shinto/japanese. There's an often-referenced-in-media belief that objects can inherit grudges, regrets, and emotions of their owners, and if they're long-lived enough, can even gain their own souls. That's what the Pokemon Banette stems from btw.

 

I think they're called Tsukumogami.