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The Sonic Frontiers *SPOILER* Thread (With Unmarked Spoilers)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, Sep 29, 2022.

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  1. synchronizer

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    The line might have been recorded far in advance. However, with such a wide timeframe, and with the hearts, Eggman logs, and irrelevant lines not being removed, something weird's going on.

    Which trailer shows the Ouranos landmarks in Kronos's background?
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022
  2. Kyro

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    You can see the tip of the oyramid from ouranos at 0:38 and several of these overview shots are actually only in the Rhea island section
     
  3. kyasarintsu

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    Would Kronos have been overwhelmingly big if those areas weren't cut from it?
     
  4. Dark Sonic

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    I think so anyway. I think the split overall was a good idea, just could’ve had more effort put into said split (different environments or seasons for example)
     
  5. synchronizer

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    They could’ve just had you return to the island to unlock the other pieces of it.
     
  6. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    That would make the "invisible wall blocking your progress" thing even more egregiously annoying than it was already.
     
  7. synchronizer

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    My preference would’ve been them having the resources to make the full 3 giant islands and a satisfying final boss. I wonder what their plans were originally before scaling-back.
     
  8. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    You know, relistening to Vandalize again after beating the game (on Hard mode, mildly regretting it), it seems like it's an Eggman song. I know it's been touched on a little bit here, but taking out the profane context of the original song which is about an abusive relationship, Eggman has finally opened up his heart to someone he sees as a daughter, and all of a sudden she's taken from him just as he's getting to know her. She left a mark on his heart, even if it vandalized it and opened him up to pain. When I first heard the song before the game's release, I never imagined the song would fit so well especially since the band dodged the reason for it's inclusion citing the technical aspects of why (which I appreciate as a musician) and now it's kinda obvious why.

    Everything aside from the lore implications and introduction of what's probably going to be an overarching villain in the series, this game is about a father and his daughter. As someone who has lost their father, Dear Father also deeply moved me too.

    Now if only the stuff carrying that narrative wasn't stuck behind an easily missed collectible...
     
  9. RikohZX

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    Full beta Kronos in its entirety is a case where it feels like that's what the game was made with in mind. It and Ouranos on their own feel stripped down compared to the scale of Ares and Chaos being significantly larger than both, never mind the problem with the Rhea region. Doesn't even feel like the Towers actually do anything, since up to that point the Titans were the seal, but then you undo the seal with the Towers and then.. well, The End just continues staying in Supreme / Cyber Space? They never explain that besides "Ouranos is clearly unfinished, go get the emeralds".

    Something tells me a major development shake up occurred in that timespan, because the whole "floating platforms" environmental challenge design also wasn't there at the awards trailer. The Cyber Space portals seem to have been ready, but the vast majority of the game's real structure was formed in half a year, and with how slap dash and borderline broken the Cyber Space levels are while filled with reused assets galore, I have to wonder if those portals had a different intention originally, since a later trailer just makes them seem like warp points.

    We can see from the June gameplay reveals going forwards that the game was still a work-in-progress for tons of little things and animation issues, polishes and so forth that would evolve over the next few months to release, that's to be expected. But the game's design also basically seemed finalized at that point besides whatever minute changes and alterations were happening in the background we're unaware of. So whatever happened between the awards trailer and the gameplay reveal seems like the crux of the development mystery.
     
  10. Trippled

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    Well it coincides with their playtesting history. They built the world first, and playtesters found it empty and boring. Seems like it was very difficult to change terrain and landmasses.

    It's also likely they realize that spending so much time on just one island in the beginning would get stale, so grass, sand, volcanic and then grass again is just better for pacing.
     
  11. ItsBrieDude

    ItsBrieDude

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    Despite it feeling weird from an implementation standpoint, the decision they made to split the first island into three was both necessary and for the best. No doubt in my mind about that.

    In my eyes, the landmass that became Ouranos survived the split very well (and is actually my favorite island from a gameplay perspective) but the landmass that became Rhea is just... ouch. It probably could've been interesting with a proper layout. But it never got that.
     
  12. Snub-n0zeMunkey

    Snub-n0zeMunkey

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    wow watching that trailer again brings back memories lol
     
  13. synchronizer

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    Or it could’ve been like the return visits in Kingdom Hearts II. Or like how Mystic Ruins in SA1 worked even, with certain events triggering extensions to the map. Anything like that would be better in my opinion. It’d be more honest and grandiose than trying to make it seem like the islands were separate.
    I actually prefer the idea of all of the islands being connected via magic rail, Sky Sanctuary-like teleporters, or something. One world.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022
  14. shilz

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    This footage shows that Ouranos was built off a portion of the original Kronos + Rhea, the transition from one to another happens somewhat suddenly. No clue why Rhea is just the top half in this case, since all they would have needed at the top of Kronos would have been the area Sonic travels through on his way to fight Giganto, and Giganto himself. In the final game, Rhea doesn't even bother to make you avoid the parts of the island that would let you easily see Kronos, and even puts one of the towers in what should be the Giganto area. I think they do well enough hiding it without hiding it, but I don't really know why they didn't just chop it off fully.

    What I speculate was the intention would have been to have this whole original design for Kronos play out as one whole island, then as normal up until the Rhea part, where you'd be sent to do the same Tower business but as new additions to Kronos. Then you'd visit a fourth area that wasn't nessecarily another island but did reveal more about how the ancients actually lived, or otherwise let you actually explore the ships they arrived on.

    Edit: I was thinking about this quote and felt like I had something to say:

    I'm not even sure the band knew themselves why it was wanted. Sonic Team's (publicly stated) reasoning is that they felt it would leave a certian feeling of loneliness to the end of the game.
    When I listen to the song, it definitely has that feeling, but, while knowing the themes and even what One Way Dream (the other ending song) is about, a direct message from Sonic Team, I think that it kind of acts as the opposite of One Way Dream.

    Nothing in the song comes to me as relating to any specific character or events that happen in the game. It seems (to me) more like Sonic Team's response to the criticism they've been getting since 2006, how often they took direct criticism only to have it backfire as new criticisms, and isolating feeling that came trying to directly respond to those criticisms.
    "Did we make a work of art just so you could deface it?"
    A part of it even feels like a response to the relationship to the fanbase in these years
    "Did you let it fall apart just so you could replace it?"
    Vandalize works, to me at least, as the sober, cynical depression presented to their critics, to One Way Dream's high, hopeful optimism presented to their fans.
    I feel like Find Your Flame is another song that's drenched in double-speak directly relating to Sonic Team, that time being Sonic Team's defiance and Fans' devotion cheering them on.
    Either of those are just my take based on what One Way Dream was admitted to being. I could be totally wrong.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
  15. RikohZX

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    To be honest, I wouldn't even be surprised if Vandalize was from an earlier part of development intent and they just ended up marketing and throwing it in when plans changed. I have no real evidence of this besides One Way Dream even being a thing for the Hard ending in the first place, and Vandalize really not feeling like it fits the overall ending besides Eggman being sad over Sage.

    Which gets fixed so quickly that it doesn't matter.
     
  16. charcoal

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    Vandalize is a great song and I love it, but I have no doubt it was just a promotion deal. It doesn't really have much to do with the game outside of the loose theme of Eggman losing Sage. In fact, according to the Luxury Disease album credits, the song didn't even have any production or writing involvement from any Sonic Team composers.
     
  17. Beamer the Meep

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    Oh, I'm certain it was a promotional deal, I just think there's more thought behind the selection of the song than we've been made aware of publically. I could see the interpretation that it could be directed at critics, but I don't necessarily think that's what they were going for.
     
  18. Londinium

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    I think they put it in there just because it's a cool rock song
     
  19. Blue Blood

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    The censored version Vandalize is a great song and it really fits the intended ending regarding Eggman and Sage (how effective the game is with that story is up for debate). But it's basically the case that SEGA sought out a song to license and found something that fit. It's not actually related to the game in any other way. The way that it can be read to discuss Eggman's relationship with Sage is purely down to chance.
     
  20. Gnidel

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    If the game didn't have collectathon with floating platforms, and only ground, bosses, puzzles, Chaos Emeralds and Cyberspace portals? No. It might feel empty but timewise it would take around 3 hours to complete. Probably in the initial gameplay concept this size was reasonable for the first island, but after it turned out that players spent 10 hours on proto-Kronos alone after adding platforms and memory tokens, they decided that the pacing would be better after the split.
     
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