don't click here

The Sonic Frontiers *SPOILER* Thread (With Unmarked Spoilers)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, Sep 29, 2022.

  1. Zephyr

    Zephyr

    Member
    3,166
    216
    43
    US
    I feel like plot-wise it wouldn't make as much sense for the Chao to be charms made by the Ancients, which became vessels for their souls, which were then left behind as empty husks when the souls flew into the sky after getting some closure.
     
  2. Starduster

    Starduster

    Sonic Retro's resident IDW slut Member
    1,378
    887
    93
    Britain
    Art...always art...
    The Chao don't really fit in the Koco's position with the story that was told. Throughout the game, it's spelled out that the Koco are shells imbued with the effective ghosts of the Ancients, that pass on once their dying wishes have been fulfilled, while the Ancients that survived the End left the Starfall Islands and are heavily implied to have become the Chao. Having the Chao take the place of the Koco would break that plot (because we already know that Chao are an ever growing species with natural life cycles involving birth, death, metamorphosis and reincarnation.
     
  3. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Member
    14,256
    1,333
    93
    Working on my art!
    Eh they already had their own koroks in chao, should have just used them imo. One could argue the chao are like spirits in a way, idk they’re related to chaos somehow who is related to the ancients. But the kocos are cute anyways so whatever, just blend in a bit too much in very detailed environments.

    Anyways, this is interesting. Left in the files of the Switch version are early map layouts before Kronos was split into three islands, and someone was able to get it running on the PC version. It’s a tad glitchy due to object differences



    A few interesting things to note:
    • At this point in development what is now Rhea and Oranous were very empty and unfinished. Very few enemies and platforming challenges at this point. Things looked more lifeless than in the final. Apparently the platforming challenges exist but due to object format differences they can’t figure out how to insert them into the PC version yet, so it’s hard to say how empty we’re talking here but it’s pretty empty regardless.
    • I always found it odd that they only used the rail path generators in one section, and turns out they initially played a greater role. Rhea had like 2 or 3 rail path generator challenges cut. Maybe playtesters found them confusing (I know I did initially)?
    • There are a couple different challenges where alternate ones were placed in the final, including a timed cyloop challenge which I don’t believe exist in the final
    • There’s some weird structure in the sky I can’t tell what it is, almost looks like a weird ship, I’m fairly confident that doesn’t exist in the final but they never explore it.
    I wonder if this is what playtesters played a few years back, because if it was I can see why they delayed it because it was lifeless, dull, and empty. If we got this version of Frontiers I think it’d of been pretty shit. Although they could’ve done more with map aesthetic variation, splitting that island into 3 was the right call.

    I also really hope they have an easier go with a sequel because a lot of trial and error went into this game and it was very much a “throw stuff at it and see if it sticks” situation. Now that they kinda know what works/what doesn’t if they actually build off this model we could have an Unleashed > Generations esq experience.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  4. jubbalub

    jubbalub

    Sonic Mania fanboy Member
    578
    518
    93
    Sonic Mania: The Misfits Pack, The Binding of Isaac: Deliverance
    The Koroks and the Koco are both based off of Kodama from ancient Japanese folklore. Koroks are actually closer to their source material as little tree seed guys, whereas Kocos are just little rocks. Saying it's just "copied" is a little reductive.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  5. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Member
    14,256
    1,333
    93
    Working on my art!
    Ah, that’d explain why internally the elder and hermit kocos are referred to as “KodamaElder” and “KodamaHermit”

    I thought Kodama was maybe an early name for the koco but that makes more sense
     
  6. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    Im hardly Frontiers' biggest fan and the Koko are fine to me. Their story function is completely different from Koroks and they are distinctive enough in design to be different.

    I think they are supposed to resemble tombstones in a way. They have a morbid design which fits with their morbid role in the story.
     
  7. shilz

    shilz

    Member
    402
    94
    28
    getting my daily allowance of vitamin kk
    You saying that they look like tombstones made me think about how Ancients dying might have actually looked... Which would be their forms just dissolving into the ground, leaving a Koco charm they might've had behind.
    Wild.
     
  8. The KKM

    The KKM

    Welcome to the nExt level Member
    2,270
    74
    28
    Portugal
    IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog comic books
    They're based on the Princess Mononoke depiction of Kodama just like the Korocs, but they do also take from old Japanese pottery and stuff like Dogu, old funereal figures etc. It's a double or triple reference- function based on korocs, look worked from ghibli kodama, but also taking the look of funereal statues and artifacts, which befits their story role.
     
  9. synchronizer

    synchronizer

    Member
    2,002
    24
    18
    I finished the main game.

    So the final boss also seems kind of thrown-in-there at the last minute. It's pretty easy and similar to boss 1, as if they ran out of time to make a proper final boss.
    Then the space battle ... Sonic calls out to the titans to help him, but nothing of the sort happens. It's just the digital hacking mini-game in space.
    Sonic's line suggests something different and grandiose was going to happen involving teamwork from the 3 titan pilots.

    It's too bad they had such a low budget/small team and had to cut so many corners with this game. I'm curious what the vision for this game was.
    I also want to believe that the cyberspace levels were originally going to have the aesthetic of the original levels on which they were based. It doesn't make sense for everything to be Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Sky Sanctuary, and whatever the cyberspace City is supposed to be.

    I'd definitely like to see something like this game fleshed-out with 100% original assets and level geometry that fits into the environment -- and an environment that feels more like Sonic.

    But hey, we finally got that Sonic '06 mockup reveal-trailer, but playable. This feels like the best possible free-roaming prototype, and I did have a lot of fun!
     
  10. So like, I guess now the question is since the Chaos Emeralds are all alien, but it's implied that the Ancients were drawn to the/our planet by the Master Emerald, where did our emerald come from? Are we running into a Final Fantasy-esque "Every planet has a crystal" kinda deal?

    Also I second the notion of "Why did none of the main cast notice the Ancients' resemblance to Chaos", although I suspect that was simply an omission due to scheduling.
     
  11. Trippled

    Trippled

    Member
    68
    13
    8
    That's fascinating and it's kinda sad that the only way Sonic Team could come up with improving the empty island is to put a bunch of typical automated on rails stuff on the island. I would have expanded the puzzles a bit more, just musing what could have been. Those running bits where you run through checkpoints or press a button within a time could have been alot more. But perhaps this was the best compromise, so I kinda get it. Next time, they should just built the world more interrestingly.
     
  12. synchronizer

    synchronizer

    Member
    2,002
    24
    18
    I kind of thought Chaos Island would feature … Chaos.
     
  13. Londinium

    Londinium

    People actually read these? Member
    I thought Chaos Island was going to be water themed
     
  14. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Member
    14,256
    1,333
    93
    Working on my art!
    No those platforming challenges actually were there, there was some kinda object difference between the switch and the pc version at the time of that video they just couldn’t get them to load.
     
  15. synchronizer

    synchronizer

    Member
    2,002
    24
    18
    I think this game restores my faith in their ability to make a fun game, but now that the team and the budget are so small, they can’t actually reach their potential for a different reason. It’s really too bad.

    Also, anyone notice how Sonic calls for help from the titans at the beginning of the final boss, but… they don’t appear at all? I really get the feeling something more grandiose like Sonic Unleashed’s final boss was meant to happen — possibly some sort of tag-team thing.
     
  16. Kyro

    Kyro

    Member
    123
    52
    28
    The entire final boss feels very rushed and like they either ran out of ideas for develooment, or ran out of time. Given ouranos was originally a part of kronos i imagine they had to scramble a bit and thats probably why supreme seems so similar to Giganto, and why the real final boss is just ikaruga
     
  17. synchronizer

    synchronizer

    Member
    2,002
    24
    18
    But from Sonic’s line, it sounds like they had a completely different concept early on. I wonder if we’ll ever learn about the original plans.
     
  18. JaxTH

    JaxTH

    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    9,878
    379
    63
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    I truly feel like Sonic is is solely talking to Supreme and not all of them. It's just awkward because Sonic clearly is talking to the ancients and instead Sage is just there.
     
  19. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Member
    14,256
    1,333
    93
    Working on my art!
    I feel like something must have changed last minute that line was really out of place.

    It’s not the only out of place final dialogue. One of the Egg Memos says there are only 3 islands instead of 5…

    How last minute was this split? Is that why Sage reuses Amy’s memory tokens?
     
  20. charcoal

    charcoal

    Member
    638
    468
    63
    Well, it had to have happened in between the December 2021 trailer and the June 2022 gameplay reveal. You can see Ouranos landmarks in the background in Kronos shots in the December trailer's landscape shots, which are absent in the June 2022 gameplay trailer. It's a pretty wide timeframe.