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The Sonic Frontiers *SPOILER* Thread (With Unmarked Spoilers)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, Sep 29, 2022.

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  1. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    I had no idea what they would have done with the corruption of Sonic but what they did do was lame.

    In Shadow of the Colossus, which they were copying, the main character was fated to die and does die.

    In Sonic Frontiers, his friends magically save him with little explanation and Sonic's fine.

    What you'd expect from copying another game's story without thinking about the implications.
     
  2. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    Wait, people unironically think the game is directly aping Shadow of the Colossus? I... shouldn't be surprised.

    But... you guys know it's not... right...? "Hero does action to save friend, has consequences" was not invented by Shadow of the Colossus. And the idea that Flynn / Sonic Team wanted to copy it but suddenly, as if they only wrote the script while they were actively playing the game, realized they couldn't kill Sonic off is hilarious... but also very likely not what happened in development at all.
     
  3. :objection: Ayo, how can you have any opinion about the story when you've only seen snippets of it?

    And I liked Flynn's Archie stuff! It was fun!
     
  4. Wraith

    Wraith

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    They foreshadowed Sonic's corruption for the entire game. For them to resolve it in a single cutscene without tying into the mechanics somehow is absolutely bad narrative design. If you guys want Sonic to be taken more seriously you have to hold Sonic Team accountable when they fuck up basic layups like that.


    You know what would have been neat, if they had taken this game that's about Sonic helping his friends by grounding them, gassing them up, giving them advice when they need, rescuing them etc....and have Sonic have to learn to ask for help in return. He spends this entire game denying that the corruption is even a thing or shutting it out. Have his 'arc' in the game be voicing his pain and asking for help instead of soldiering on because That's What a Hero Does.
     
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  5. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    In terms of the game's aesthetics I think a big problem is the lack of any detail or even foliage. Sometimes the map looks detailed and nice.

    [​IMG]

    Sometimes it looks like this

    [​IMG]

    I think people are thinking so much about art design we are overlooking basic things such as detail. Where are the trees? Where are the foliage? It's just blank landmass.
     
  6. MastaSys

    MastaSys

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    I don't intend to play the game full price, but I was curious enough to see other people play it and know the overall plot from beginning to end.
    Spoilers on a Sonic game is a non-issue to me, Story was never the focus.
    I'm pretty assured of it's content.

    Also as an outsider (like many others), when i think "Archie's Sonic" it's not Flynn stories that comes to mind.

    (Btw I own his IDW classic sonic story issue compiled hardcover book thingie and i've enjoyed it, for that matter)
     
  7. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    It's absolutely aping Shadow of the Colossus. The titan boss fights are rip offs of Shadow of the Colossus. Sonic gets corrupted with Cyber energy when taking down the Cyberspace realm. He's doing it to save his friends. It's killing him and is affecting his movement and look.

    It's absolutely 100% copying Shadow of the Colossus and to say otherwise is denial.
     
  8. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
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    I don't remember Wander turning golden and kicking three shade of crap out of the Colossus'...
     
  9. Battons

    Battons

    Shining Force Fan Member
    Just because something is influenced by one thing doesn't mean its a copy, when does wander turn into goku and jotaro punch the third colossus? All it tells me is that someone on Sonic Team really liked the game or concept and wanted to find a way to incorporate that into their ideas.
    *ninjad :(*
     
  10. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    Sonic already denies the corruption is harming him. With Amy, he even tries to frame it like it's a positive. Then Tails actively starts to worry and Sonic still tries to brush it off.

    And while Sonic doesn't vocalize it himself, the only reason he is saved is because his friends helped him. This is likely why Sonic doesn't have a gameplay segment related to freeing himself, because then he'd... free himself. A big power of friendship moment saves him in the end.

    Ultimately, he accepts Sage and Eggman's help when his actions have directly endangered the world and put his friends back into prison anyway.

    In THIS case, though, I would absolutely agree that Sage should have had a greater impact on the gameplay mechanically to serve this purpose better.

    Ah, I can absolutely agree with this. Some places look amazing, others, what the hell.

    You did not say this, lol. The only similarities is that the bosses are big. Climbing them isn't even the bulk of the boss fight. We're really saying "Shadow of the Colossus invented titans."

    Hey, remember when Wander turned Super Saiyan and killed the flying colossus by punching it to death and stuffing its own missiles in its mouth?
     
  11. MastaSys

    MastaSys

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    Let me tell you it's a chore when Goku needs to fetch all 7 Dragon Balls every time he wants to turn Super Sayian.
    Bad plot device if you ask me.
     
  12. Starduster

    Starduster

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    This is basically what I was trying to articulate. Another issue I have with the whole thing is that, while the new moves and stuff in this game is explained as being due to cyber space, I don't feel that the negatives that we see really feed into the gameplay at all. It's good for showing Sage how Sonic will stand up to impossible odds for those he cares about and to do what he feels is right, but the final resolution just plays as the game trying to have its cake and eat it too in terms of showing Sonic all fucked up without then putting in the work to properly fix things. And they could still do the power of friendship stuff! They don't even need any specific technobabble for how it's done, but ultimately what we got is just superficial.

    I imagine this is byproduct of the technical deficiencies that have been speculated to exist within how the engine handles loading. Pop in would likely be much more aggressive with more trees and foliage. At the end of the day, I see this as another point for making the environments more stylised. Don't literally give us Green Hill, but look to it and other classic locales for inspiration. Those geometric palm trees would not only satisfy those saying that the game doesn't look Sonic-y enough, it would probably offer a more technically impressive visual while hopefully helping to bring down the overall polygons on the screen, improving pop-in and framerate.
     
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  13. Wraith

    Wraith

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    Like a lot of Sonic things frontiers riff things wholesale from popular culture, and just like a lot of Sonic things Frontiers gets the surface level right, but misses the underlying point so hard you wonder if the developers know why they riffed it to begin with beyond it just seeming cool to them.
     
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  14. RikohZX

    RikohZX

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    Honestly, expanding on my thoughts from the previous page, I'd probably have worked this idea into the narrative in a different way.

    Sonic forgets who he is and what he does as he gets trapped in Cyber Space, and his weakened state has been swapped in as the last part of the seal The End has to kill as his friends immediately turn around prepping to dive back in to save him. Sage goes to realize the Real Super Power of Teamwork and his bonds are what really empower him rather than just sole, unflappable determination, cliché though it may be, and convinces Eggman that for once in his entire lifetime, saving Sonic would be saving the world he wants to rule rather than just leaving him to die. (though in hindsight Lost Word already did this a little, but hey)

    Thus the entire final region would be in Cyber Space with a corrupted Sonic not finding tokens for incidental Sage conversations, but instead essentially talking with his friends (and Eggman), regaining his memories, surviving attempts by The End to kill him, and using something or another thanks to Sage's help in the Ancient's Cyber Space network to finally take the fight to The End. Maybe get extra crazy or trippy with the visuals and design thanks to being inside Cyber Space, but the area itself could be a recolored and digital-glitches Ouranos without having to substantially change anything really.

    Show Sonic at his lowest not just physically but mentally, and then literally reconstruct his character back from the ground-up to show us who Sonic truly is and why his friends mean so much to him, instead of a binary variable of "off Sonic" and "on Sonic". But hey, this is just dumb fanfic ideas from me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2022
  15. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    Let's think about this. You decide to make a cool boss fight. You copy Shadow of the Colossus.

    The fact your game also just so happens to have the same core story beat as Shadow of the Colossus just happens to be a coincidence?
     
  16. MastaSys

    MastaSys

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    ...You guys seriously want 1:1 Shadow of Colossus Plot on a Sonic Game?
    No wonder Sega has a hard time to please the existing fan base.
     
  17. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    These standards I assure you are not held for literally any other franchise that makes shout outs because it's cool. But Sonic exclusively need to write a dissertation to have Giganto grab Sonic like the Unit-01 grabs Kaworu.

    Nevermind that Sage's a walking Rei Ayanami reference and that is not only relevant to her character, but the game does make use of it well (for a Sonic game; it's not amazing, groundbreaking character development, but it is well done).

    And this is all assuming that you think is a reference is necessarily a reference. Perhaps it's surface level because... it's not... actually... a reference...?

    The boss fights in Sonic Frontiers are nothing like Shadow of Colossus besides the vague idea that the latter necessarily created the idea of big bosses.

    Yes, because the core story beat of Shadow of the Colossus was not invented by Shadow of the Colossus either. It is a very basic story with not much else to it by design. It's a game about a guy killing titans to save a friend and that is literally all the game's story. It's not about its story beats and plot in the first place, Shadow of the Colossus is a game that prides itself on its atmosphere and immersion in the gameplay.

    Shadow of the Colossus is not known for its super original, detailed plot and story, that such basic plot beats must be from that game in particular, and relatedly, that not having Sonic die means it doesn't "get the point."
     
  18. Battons

    Battons

    Shining Force Fan Member
    Again, I see it as an influence. Sonic does not become corrupted due to the titans but rather from absorbing the field containing his friends. Shadow of the Colossus has you killing titans to unseal a God that promises to resurrect your fiance or whatever she is to wander. Just because you climb a big thing doesn't mean its a copy. If that were the case then everything would just be a copy of the odyssey from ancient Greece.
     
  19. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    Are you joking? You jump on the Titan, climb up its limbs (Sonic literally climbs when he's not running), make your way up to the head and then take the emerald.

    It's so obviously copying Shadow of the Colossus I think it's a waste of time to even argue the case.
     
  20. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    Ah yes

    Wander collecting the Chaos Emeralds

    The famous plot of Shadow of the Colossus

    I like how you had to emphasize how Sonic climbs if he's not running, like that's a smoking gun. Where else would Sonic Team get the idea for Sonic climbing on things if not for the 2005 Playstation 2 cult classic Shadow of the Colossus?

    "Sonic climbs on big guy" is really your argument that it is a rip-off wholesale of this specific game? That it's SO obvious you shouldn't even have to argue it?

    I feel like, you came up with the frosting before you baked the cake.
     
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