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The Sonic Frontiers *SPOILER* Thread (With Unmarked Spoilers)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, Sep 29, 2022.

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  1. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Chronicles isn’t canon. With regards to the Ancients and Chao, my personal theory is that Chao are an evolution of the remaining Ancients. Granted that’s not how evolution works in real life, but I think Chaos’ mutation being the awakening of the Ancient DNA within him would make enough sense.
     
  2. MykonosFan

    MykonosFan

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    I think that's the read we're supposed to have on it, yeah. It does make caring for the Chao more...interesting, in retrospect.
     
  3. I think "devolution" would be a more appropriate description in that scenario lol
     
  4. BlackHole

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    Please don't call it that, that doesn't exist...
     
  5. It is indeed a word that exists and it means "descent to a lower or worse state". We're not talking about biological evolution here lol. Going from planet traversing super intelligence to helpless gelatin babies is indeed a devolution.
     
  6. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Sure, if you want to split hairs, but I wouldn’t say Chao are helpless just because they’re cute. Cheese is the bane of Eggman’s existence in Advance 2, and another Chao punched him so hard he fell off of a cliff in the Chao in Space short. At any rate, I think the Chaos mutation being a result of exposure to the Master Emerald (which the Ancients weren’t aware of) checks out if it’s restoring a previous form. It also perhaps explains how Chaos Chao are able to form (though of course this is on shakier ground since Chao are pretty maleable in the first place and none of the ones in SA2 spend time around the Master Emerald, as far as we’re aware).
     
  7. Lol I can throw chao around with impunity in Adventure and Adventure 2 and they are incapable of stopping me, even playing as Eggman. Cheese is just a monster - I wouldn't mess with him. The vast majority of chao are functionally helpless as far as gameplay is concerned, even if you increase their power stat. Most of them don't even have the coordination to draw properly.

    I'd originally thought that Chaos 0 looks the way he does because he's very old and immortal, because all immortal chao look like him. And it was his body that was mutated, not necessarily the shape of his head, since that's the only physical resemblance (non-mutated) immortal chao have to him. But since the head shape is part of the resemblance he has to the Ancients, this can't be the case. The Master Emerald probably does play a role for Chaos specifically, since he's protecting it, but for the other immortal chao resembling the Ancients, I dunno about the ME connection.

    It will be interesting to see why the Master Emerald reacts to the Chaos Emeralds, which are native to another world, in the future. How the Master Emerald works is pretty confusing in general, so it would be good to have media in the future addressing it specifically. Flynn said on the Bumblekast (I think a year ago?) that he was informed by SEGA that the Master Emerald has no power of its own, and it only acts as a controller for the power of the Chaos Emeralds. So Flynn emailed them "how does the Master Emerald make Angel Island float when it has no power of its own? Do the Chaos Emeralds have something to do with it?" and they just never got back to him. Hopefully he has a closer working relationship with SoJ now that he's a game writer.
     
  8. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    Of course he does. He's the one who tells her to fly off first with his "Ladies first" line.
     
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Do remember you hatch those Chao when you enter. That's like saying Humans are weak because you can punt a baby.
     
  10. Except humans become stronger, more capable adults when they age. And chao are always babies, even as adults. The end of a chao's life cycle is either death by old age (after three reincarnation cycles, I think) or it becomes immortal and turns into a chaos chao after at least two reincarnations with a high happiness value and having received at least one of every animal. Chao do become adults as time passes in the Chao Gardens, if that's what you mean. And they're just as incapable of defending themselves as adults as when they are newly hatched.
     
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  11. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    So how often do you throw this guy around?
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Are you saying he's some kind of Mr Miyagi of chao who could stand against Eggman or Sonic or whoever if they tried to throw him? He just sits there.

    The only thing I said was that chao are generally helpless and that is true. I dunno why I'm receiving pushback for this - that is the canonical reason chao only exist in Chao Gardens. Because Chao Gardens have no predators and have the right environmental conditions for the chao to exist. They are the Nightopians of Sonic. When Pachacamac and the Knuckles tribe attack the chao in Adventure, we're not supposed to think to ourselves "the echidnas are strong and they're overpowering the chao!". Cheese is an outlier - most adult chao are defenseless.
     
  13. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    The Chao do have Karate, where when sufficiently trained they're doing spinning kicks and the like. So yes, it's a possibly.



    Do remember that, despite the 'life cycle', you're still taking the Chao to a Kindergarten, where all the staff actually talk. These babies also rock climb.

    Basically, you're basing your assumption on literal babies, when Cheese provides evidence Chao can be tough little things, the Kindergarten is being run by Chao that can actually talk, and there's enough society that the Chao have a Black Market. Chao Gardens are most likely akin to a birds nest: of course they'd pick a safe space location to have eggs.

    Of course, there's the fact we can breed Chao, but let's... let's not get into that...
     
  14. They can do karate to fight against other chao. That's no indication that most of them would be capable of fighting against other creatures. Other chao don't participate in a black market - that black market only exists for us, the player, to buy things.

    Please don't ignore the rest of my comment. Chao are canonically described as fragile, ephemeral creatures on the Sonic Channel website. We are supposed to think of them as fragile, short-lived creatures. And, in general, that is what they are. All chao have a form of language - even the ones that just make baby noises, if we go by Chao Adventure - but that doesn't mean that they aren't defenseless. All chao are certainly capable of being like Cheese but that doesn't mean that they are like Cheese. I don't even know why this debate is happening.
     
  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    They also have eggs scattered around the Adventure Fields of Sonic Adventure, so Chao do venture out of the Gardens, which suggest that yes, they can deal with predators.

    Despite the Doctor and the Chao Professor existing, showing older Chao. Despite Cheese wrecking Robotnik's mechs.

    There's Chao that are older than the freshly hatched ones we see, alongside the indications of their society such as the fact they've built a building (who do you think build the Chao Kindergarten? The outside contractors who were building the Death Star II?), which I don't see them doing if they age as mayflies. No point building a whole school if the Chao who requested it died 1/5th of the way through it's construction.

    So, what, Cream taught Cheese how to be a tactical missile?

    Did she also teach Chocola how to throw bombs out a balloon?

    Because I dislike inaccuracies.
     
  16. The KKM

    The KKM

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    Have you considered the Chao Kindergarten is not actually an in-universe thing, just like the springs and spikes and so on, and is just a depiction of a gameplay mechanic, and thus irrelevant to lore?
     
  17. BlackHole

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    Springs and Spikes are something Robotnik would be leaving in preparation for Sonic, because why wouldn't you booby trap the area if you knew that hedgehog would be coming along?

    We could also argue the Chao Gardens themselves are irrelevant to the lore and not an in-universe thing outside of the concept existing, since I doubt the cast would take a break from trying to save or destroy the world to go pet one of them. You also only access the Sonic Adventure 2 Chao Garden through a Teleportation Room after finding a key.

    Sonic Adventure's Chao Gardens could be canon, since you access them through 'normal' means, and I think some NPCs reference their existence, but they also have Omochaos, so they still could be considered a more advanced race than we're giving them credit for.
     
  18. I'm going to bed haha. It's almost 3 AM here. You can ask Sonic Team why they consider chao as a species fragile, short-lived creatures who stand around helplessly when the Knuckles Tribe attack them, when they depict Cheese as being capable of defending himself. Chao lore don't make no sense when you think about it. But, lore wise, they are supposed to be generally fragile and helpless. That's not inaccurate - you just ignored me bringing up Sonic Channel because it doesn't fit with your argument.
     
  19. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I'm aware, I'm in the same country.

    I didn't, actually. If you read, I answered that Chao Gardens are likely like nests: safe spaces for eggs to hatch and babies to be raised. I just didn't quote that specific part of your post since I assumed you'd figure that was what that was referring to. My mistake.
    Your Sonic Channel argument came after, and I answered that as well.
     
  20. But the Chao Garden response only makes sense in accounting for the fragility of newly hatched / baby chao. And Sonic Channel is talking about chao as a species, which includes adults. "Chao are fragile, ephemeral creatures" - this isn't just newly hatched / baby chao. I dunno what else to say?

    Actually, I'll just not write anything about this anymore haha. Sonic stuff don't have to be so serious. Night mate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2022
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