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The Sonic Frontiers *SPOILER* Thread (With Unmarked Spoilers)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, Sep 29, 2022.

  1. jubbalub

    jubbalub

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    Sonic Mania: The Misfits Pack, The Binding of Isaac: Deliverance
  2. Sneekie

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    The folder could be from September but the build itself was compiled by June. Or rather, Sonic Team is updating the same June build for demo purposes. The same guy also makes clear that the TGS demos actually didn't have the rankings fixed, the demos used by the livestreamers did.

    https://twitter.com/DeaThProj/status/1574990392071593985
     
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  3. The fact that the first boss is this over the top is actually so fucking funny to me lol. Like what the hell is the rest of the game gonna be like if this is how we're starting it???
     
  4. Felik

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    I have to agree with Laura on this one. Although I wouldn't say animations look terrible, there seems to be zero depth to the combat (both regular enemies and boss fights). It's just lock on and mash attack button (I really hope to be proven wrong).
    Granted Sonic boss fights were never good (Probably only SA/SA2 and a very few select classic bosses were actually descent/good), this looks like it's going to be a problem given how much focus is on combat in Forces.

    And please stop with the "but it's an old demo" argument. I'm 1000% sure they are neither going to fix subpar cyberspace physics/controls (ESPECIALLY in "3D" aka just run forward areas) nor general jank.
     
  5. charcoal

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    the enemies and transformations just get progressively more absurd and powerful each time and its gonna be fucking hilarious
    at least id hope thats whatll happen lol
     
  6. We did get reports recently from someone who played the demo about the combat. It's a bit more involved than it looks, though how involved I couldn't tell you. And I don't know if that extends to the Super Sonic fights either.
     
  7. The Deleter

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    The player doesn't seem to use any finishers that Sonic usually has in his base skillset, only the counter attack with the default special animation. I'd wait until players get more experimental with Super Sonic's moveset before writing it off as exactly what we see here. (there seems to be an attack with yellow trails used at one point, but it's hard to tell what it did)

    Though that said, I'm not expecting depth to rear its head in this battle, either. Super Sonic is supposed to be the flashiest, most power-fantasy-embodying aspect of the game here. If the depth doesn't exist in the base combat, it's not going to make a surprise appearance here at the 11th hour.
     
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  8. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    I wasn't sure whether this should go in the main thread to to it being a semi-official source, but this Famitsu article about a guide for the game contains some potentially-important info for anyone who's been speculating about the plot for the past year and a half.

    [​IMG]

    The third volcanic island is called "Chaos Island". This actually does technically fit with the naming scheme of Greek cosmology, even if it's not technically a conventional God or Titan.

    (The rest of the text in the article seems to be stuff we already know and expect)

    Also, I'm not sure how representational these cute little postcard graphics are meant to be, but those ruins look like heretofore-unseen locations on Kronos and Ares.
     
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  9. BlueSkiesAM2

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    I can’t really gauge how Super Sonic plays but I can’t see how this is worse than any other Super Sonic battle we’ve ever had in terms of gameplay. There seems to be more direct and meaningful interaction with the enemy than we’ve had since SA2. Not changing the gameplay completely is also much appreciated. I’d say it falters on spectacle but it’s understandable since it’s not an actual final boss like every other instance of SS battles.

    Overall, it didn’t impress me at all but it didn’t lower my opinion of the game. I’m pretty into action games so maybe there are some mechanics we’re not seeing that will surprise and interest me.
     
  10. Chimera

    Chimera

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    Before making judgement calls on how much damage Super does to that boss, bear in mind this game has a stats system, and people likely had to speedrun their way to get to him, so any "average" play would get you around Lv 15 for attack.

    This is like a far, far less extreme example of going directly to Ganon with no upgrades.

    Say what you will about how spamming parry (as it seems) managed to get them to win anyway, but to the game's credit the people recording DID try to break the limits deliberately.
     
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  11. jubbalub

    jubbalub

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    It's also incredibly blurry off-kilter footage where you can barely tell what's going on.
     
  12. MykonosFan

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    This is worth keeping in mind. All of Sonic's stats in the lower left were at Level 1, by the time one would organically get to this fight they would surely be higher.
     
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  13. Azookara

    Azookara

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    I think the camera makes this boss look near unplayable. That is extremely disorienting.

    The repetition and length of the battle doesn't help, it's extreme tedium. And yeah, I know the stats are at lvl 1, but that means there's no way to truly speedrun this game without having to take time for grinding OR deal with a slow, annoying boss with the same combos and QTEs over and over. All washed over with a really wonky camera you have to fight against. Classic Sonic Team jank combined with classic Sonic Team padding.

    Knowing you'd have to do this near five times with what I assume will be more and more required experience almost puts me off the game completely, too. Christ.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2022
  14. Sneekie

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    1) Speedrunners would very likely be able to find a way to skip the boss entirely. They don't care about a five-minute long boss in their two-hour Sonic Frontiers speedrun.

    Speedrunnners will leave a game on for hours to very slowly watch the player character phase through a wall to make a world record. Your concern is appreciated but completely unneeded.

    2) I do not understand your complaint that the first major boss of the game (which, for many normal people would be the culmination of hours of gameplay) could take a whopping five minutes if you go in with level 1 Sonic and ignore everything in the game but exactly what you need to get there, and the subsequent complaint that to make the boss fight go faster, you need to... actually play the game as intended.

    You make Sonic stronger by exploring the world and playing the game normally, i.e., not as a speedrunner. That's not padding, that's... the game. That is how the game is designed to be played, and how 99% of people will play it. I doubt you would even need that much in the first place in terms of grinding.

    And if you literally do not need to do that anyway if you don't want to, then it is especially not padding. You do not need to grind. You can beat it perfectly fine with Sonic's lowest stats, you'll just have a substandard time because you have literally less of a game to play.

    In terms of the boss gameplay itself, considering that the player claims that they got there in 35 minutes, and they only have one Skill Point, they likely didn't unlock any of Sonic's skills either (the counter move is given to you by Amy). So you could use those in combos if you play the game normally too.

    The camera really is not that bad either. There is only one thing you pay attention to, it's big, there you go.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2022
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  15. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    "Everybody's super sonic fishing..." (Theme of 'Sonic F')
    Don't fish during a boss fight! :V

    Ok, I'll go to the corner and think about what I've just have done.
    ...

    Nonsense aside, I'm ok if the combat isn't really deep, I 'm not in the mood of "gittin' gud", in fact I hope I'm not forced to lock-on the enemy because I never do that on other games except when I'm forced to, and usually I don't like the games I'm forced to do so. Going around to dodge and cyloop things and charge towards the enemy's face when I see an open is more like my modus operandi, or, in the case of giant enemies, looking for a blind point and abuse it if it's unprotected.
     
  16. BlueSkiesAM2

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    That’s weird. Never seen someone complain about this. What don’t you like about it?
     
  17. Azookara

    Azookara

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    How come any time I (or anyone for that matter) have anything middling or negative to say about this game, I have to read a big post about why I'm wrong about it? Like we got some kind of Frontiers defense squad going on here.

    I just think the battle looks repetitive, takes too long, and I find what I'm seeing to look really clunky and unfun with a really disorienting camera. And saying you have to use the mechanics of the leveling up system as that's "just playing the game" shows a big line drawn between people who want this game and people who've played other Sonic games and never had to put up with this kind of stuff.

    Basically none of your argument really overrides that I think it looks like crap. Is it crap that will put me off the game entirely? I dunno. But if it's gonna be a thing I constantly deal with, then maybe! And I really don't think "if you don't like it, learn how to skip it" is the answer you may think it is, either.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2022
  18. Overlord

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    The to-the-hilt defending I'm finding somewhat amusing as well, moreso considering the thing isn't even out yet. People are perfectly entitled to think this game looks dull/awful/jank.
     
  19. Sneekie

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    Nothing wrong with thinking it's jank, but I am trying to find out how the boss being more tedious and taking longer if you gun straight for it without any of the upgrades designed specifically to make boss encounters more fun, short, and interesting is jank or disencourages speedrunning.

    Which was what my big, dumb defensive reply was all about lol.

    If anything, I'd expect this to be invited; a Sonic game you can beat fast if you know what you're doing. Here, you can beat the first world in 30 minutes instead of 3 hours, at the cost of the world's boss taking five minutes instead of two.

    I would get it if it was impossible (or, like, 10 minutes) to beat without those upgrades. That would be padding. But honestly, my own critique is that it seems pretty easy all things considered.

    "if you don't like it, you can skip it" is precisely an answer here. I don't know how the game could solve this issue besides... well, not having the boss at all I guess.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2022
  20. The Deleter

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    The jank that frontiers has is incredibly noticeable and sticks out like a sore thumb compared to games with similar dev time and standing in the industry. If Mario came out with the amount of physics bugs and jittery animation/collision issues for simple overworld traversal, there's no way the gaming community at large would suddenly be cool with it.

    On the other hand though, my enjoyment of 3D hack and slash games comes into play with this boss, and the statements of jank and unplayability just feel incredibly hollow in comparison. I can acknowledge that they look jank to players, and may even apply to the genre boss battles as a whole, but it's also incredibly close to some of the better handlings of genre. The character can attack any point on the enemy, sure - this makes the boss take up the entire screen and feels awful, obviously. But it also isn't the "correct" weak point the player should be attacking, as the head is the one that causes the knockback and probably also affords the most damage, giving the player the perfect vantage over the fight at the distance the neck is from the body. The camera is disorientating - not exactly uncommon in these games, but also encouraged and enjoyable when used for effect, like the camera tilting when Giganta is being smacked in the face. And I know no one has mentioned it itself, but the speed of the combat, while making things even more disorientating, is also a major factor in how enjoyably intense hack n slash bosses can be.

    The complaints about repetitive actions and lack of depth are much more applicable in how poorly it would compare to its contemporaries, but the former is something that is the most uncertain with the player spamming one move, and the latter feels like a rather easy concession to make in the name of leaving the series accessible to kids. Without those two points, the blueprint this boss has not only looks incredibly similar in execution to it's hand and slash peers, but also opens the battlefield up to be potentially the most exhilarating version of a super Sonic boss thought up so far, with spectacle, freedom of choice, and sheer power blowing the other SS bosses away.

    I can understand why people focus on the jank with Frontiers. I just don't understand how that applies here in a way that is somehow more scathing than what has come before in video games, in terms of garbage execution, with very little room for enjoyment to be had, of all things.