The Sonic Adventure 2 that almost was...

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by BlazeHedgehog, Aug 25, 2010.

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  1. LockOnTommy11

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    ^ We're not. That's exactly what is not supposed to happen. We'll leave that for now. I just messaged MarkoMan with the explanation.
     
  2. Aquaslash

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    <!--quoteo(post=497153:date=Aug 27 2010, 04:01 PM:name=MarkoMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MarkoMan @ Aug 27 2010, 04:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497153">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can Rush and Rivals exist in the same time line if Rush prominently has Nega from an alternate dimension and Rivals prominently has Nega from the future?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Eggman Nega is a copious liar, and all around madman. His true origins are unknown.
     
  3. Hitlersaurus Christ

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    <!--quoteo(post=497153:date=Aug 27 2010, 01:01 PM:name=MarkoMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MarkoMan @ Aug 27 2010, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497153">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can Rush and Rivals exist in the same time line if Rush prominently has Nega from an alternate dimension and Rivals prominently has Nega from the future?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well the fact that there isn't an established "canon" aside from character bios and whatever the head of each individual project decides to use in their game aside, Sega's official statement on Nega (and assumedly Blaze) is that he's from another dimension and that he was only from the future in sonic Rivals to explain the card mechanic. (No, that doesn't make any sense to me, either, but if you have a problem you should take it up with Sega.) I can dig up the interview if you guys want, but you should be able to find it on either Cult or GHZ (forget which one I read it on, it's been a while). The Rivals games were also never released in Sega's home country. If you're trying to come up with a timeline, that would probably be important to consider. I guess. Sega tried to make a canon after the Adventure series for a while but that sort of fell apart once multiple teams started developing new Sonic titles.

    On topic:
    One thing I remember reading before SA2 was released was that the winner of a create a character contest Sega of America held online in 2000 or so was named Nails the Bat and would be featured in SA2... I can't really find anything about Nails being the winner right now, but I definitely remember that contest. (My entry was a red hedgehog named Blaze who was just like Sonic but slightly slower and had a stronger spin dash called the break dash... I was 10 so it seemed cool at the time)
    Does anyone else remember this or did I hallucinate the whole thing?
     
  4. OKei

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    I'm pretty late to the party, but I'm glad that SA2's development is being discussed right now.

    <!--quoteo(post=497148:date=Aug 27 2010, 12:54 PM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Aug 27 2010, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497148">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Note that all of that can be massaged out of SA2's storyline without bringing Rouge or Tails in to the picture - and if the description of the concept art is to be believed, Shadow and Rouge are "evil versions" of Sonic and Tails. What would make sense to me, from a storyline perspective, is to have Tails and Rouge trying to pull Knuckles either to the side of good or the side of evil, but that's getting in to deep speculation territory -- too deep to consider for the spectrum of this topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But we should keep in mind that Rouge isn't actually evil in SA2 (I know you added "quote marks", but it seemed like you were stressing Rouge as an evil character). In the final game, she's playing at the side of evil so she can gather intellegence because that was her job by the government. She is an undercover spy. Unlike Eggman and Shadow, Rouge had no real malicious intent throughout the game. Her real motivation however (harmless for the most part, aside of stealing Knuckles' M.E.), was jewels, and not destroying the world. Point I'm making is that perhaps she (still) was Knuckles' counterpart as a neutral character at some point in SA2's development.

    As for her original name Nails, I can certainly say that I too have heard of that name before along with a pre-production polygonal model of her in an issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly in 2000. If you may, I will try and find the page through my huge collection of gaming magazines from the 90s. I'll report if I find anything.

    Please keep in mind, that I had to wrap up this post in a pressure rush. There may be some fragile points I made so I guess feel free to point out anything in my post.
     
  5. Doppelgengar

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    This topic makes my panties wet. I especially enjoy the fact that if this is to believed, Knuckles being a tweener character may have prevented his descension into character purgatory. Knuckles' role is what intrigues me the most.
     
  6. Dan Genesis

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    <!--quoteo(post=496959:date=Aug 27 2010, 01:06 AM:name=SpeedStarTMQ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpeedStarTMQ @ Aug 27 2010, 01:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=496959">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Battle fits the story well. From playing it, it's clear to me it's set well after Shadow The Hedgehog, due to the things that are mentioned and said. It takes place well after the non-existent 2006, but takes place before Advance 3, which is before the Rush games, which is also the start of the current Nintendo based games (Secret Rings, Riders 2, Unleashed, Black Knight and Colours etc.) and the Rivals series, which everyone who has played it should be aware that it's the second half of the Nega story, where we learn Nega, Blaze and Silver are from the future, not another dimension (also known in 2006 before everyone did a 'Dallas'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think you have that backwards. Shadow the Hedgehog happens after Sonic Heroes, which occurs after Sonic Adventure 2.

    Think about it - if Shadow the Hedgehog were to take place before SA2, then it would make no sense for nobody to know who Shadow is in SA2. Plus, if you prolong the Devil Doom fight, Eggman mentions sending one of his robots to retrieve Shadow as he fell from the ARK - which means that SA2 comes before Shadow the Hedgehog.
     
  7. Hitlersaurus Christ

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    Uh... Pretty sure he was talking about Sonic Battle...
     
  8. Mr. Pictures

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    <!--quoteo(post=497213:date=Aug 27 2010, 05:40 PM:name=OKei)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OKei @ Aug 27 2010, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497213">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for her original name Nails, I can certainly say that I too have heard of that name before along with a pre-production polygonal model of her in an issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly in 2000. If you may, I will try and find the page through my huge collection of gaming magazines from the 90s. I'll report if I find anything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think I saw scans of this in Sonic HQ's news section way back when (they were some of the first images of Shadow and Rouge online). I'm not sure if it's still hosted on the site now, but you may want to check their archives.

    And Blanche, you're probably right about the Chao thing.
     
  9. <!--quoteo(post=497141:date=Aug 27 2010, 02:41 PM:name=SpeedStarTMQ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpeedStarTMQ @ Aug 27 2010, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497141">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->continuity stuff<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I wasn't saying continuity didn't exist from Sonic Adventure onward, just that trying to place the spinoffs and handhelds in sequence with the main console games like you had was just guesswork and that SEGA themselves had probably never even considered it. Of course Battle happened after Adventure 2 and before Advance 3, but there's nothing to indicate any relation to Heroes, ShtH, or 06. That's why I said you were overthinking things.

    I'm not making a "How Sonic was or what Sonic was to them, or what it still means to them" argument, just saying that it seems to me that 'SEGA didn't think' and they really don't consider continuity within the larger series when writing stories to the games. Most of it just seems to be determined by fan demand, like bringing back Shadow after SA2. After 06, many fans had grown tired of all the story arcs and supporting characters so SEGA simply didn't use them or acknowledge them in Unleashed. It seems to me that currently SEGA is actively moving away from the idea of an overall continuity for the series.

    Getting back to Sonic Adventure 2, if it really was as dark as some of the dropped concepts seem to indicate and it was released that way, could it have killed the series? I mean there was Shadow and 06 later, but if they had released a darker game at the end of the Dreamcast's lifecycle, how would it affect the rating, and would it sell well enough to warrant a port to other consoles?
     
  10. SomeSortOfRobot

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    <!--quoteo(post=497244:date=Aug 27 2010, 05:46 PM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Aug 27 2010, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497244">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=497213:date=Aug 27 2010, 05:40 PM:name=OKei)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OKei @ Aug 27 2010, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497213">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for her original name Nails, I can certainly say that I too have heard of that name before along with a pre-production polygonal model of her in an issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly in 2000. If you may, I will try and find the page through my huge collection of gaming magazines from the 90s. I'll report if I find anything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think I saw scans of this in Sonic HQ's news section way back when (they were some of the first images of Shadow and Rouge online). I'm not sure if it's still hosted on the site now, but you may want to check their archives.

    And Blanche, you're probably right about the Chao thing.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I couldn't find it.
     
  11. Mr. Pictures

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    <!--quoteo(post=497250:date=Aug 27 2010, 05:57 PM:name=SomeSortOfRobot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SomeSortOfRobot @ Aug 27 2010, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497250">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=497244:date=Aug 27 2010, 05:46 PM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Aug 27 2010, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497244">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=497213:date=Aug 27 2010, 05:40 PM:name=OKei)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OKei @ Aug 27 2010, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497213">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for her original name Nails, I can certainly say that I too have heard of that name before along with a pre-production polygonal model of her in an issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly in 2000. If you may, I will try and find the page through my huge collection of gaming magazines from the 90s. I'll report if I find anything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think I saw scans of this in Sonic HQ's news section way back when (they were some of the first images of Shadow and Rouge online). I'm not sure if it's still hosted on the site now, but you may want to check their archives.

    And Blanche, you're probably right about the Chao thing.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I couldn't find it.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sorry then. I'm pretty sure it was the HQ site, but hopefully you or someone else can find it elsewhere.
     
  12. Google 'the wayback machine', if they had it up there and didn't archive it, you may find it on there.
     
  13. SomeSortOfRobot

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    <!--quoteo(post=497267:date=Aug 27 2010, 06:36 PM:name=ultima espio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ultima espio @ Aug 27 2010, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497267">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Google 'the wayback machine', if they had it up there and didn't archive it, you may find it on there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I couldn't find it there, either.

    Unless they used a different domain name back then. :v: But that wouldn't account for it, would it?
     
  14. Was it Sonichq.org you tried? That was their original page. I'm looking at August 2000 pages now.

    In the games list, it mentions "Sonic Police" and "Sonic Square" but no page exists for either of them.
     
  15. BlazeHedgehog

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    A friend of mine pointed this out a long time ago, and upon bringing the subject up to him recently, pointed it out again, that in the "Dark Side Story" preview in Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow's right eye actually looks kind of weird

    <!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MU76ksJ0Z9o&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MU76ksJ0Z9o&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->

    I ripped what he was talking about from the SFD, and it does look sort of odd. But it's not "missing", or anything.

    [​IMG]

    It might just be a lighting error, though. A lot of the lighting in the Dark Side/Hero Side previews is incorrect. Could be from an older version of that cutscene.I dunno, I just figured I'd point it out, for his sake.
     
  16. ashthedragon

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    That dark side preview also has a different sounding "throw it all away" theme, or at least, it seems quite different to me. more guitar heavy and different chord progression.


    That shadow eye intriges me. I would like to belive that is what we're looking for, but in a later scene seen in the trailer, shadow's eyes are perfectly fine. I doubt they would mix such different characther design for the same characther in one video.


    anyways, where is this video from? the final game? or some sort of preview from a show or something?
     
  17. SomeSortOfRobot

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    <!--quoteo(post=497455:date=Aug 28 2010, 08:04 AM:name=ultima espio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ultima espio @ Aug 28 2010, 08:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497455">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Was it Sonichq.org you tried? That was their original page. I'm looking at August 2000 pages now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I just searched all over those pages and still didn't find it.

    It can't be the ONLY site on the internet to have posted it, though.
     
  18. BlazeHedgehog

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    <!--quoteo(post=497504:date=Aug 28 2010, 12:09 PM:name=ashthedragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ashthedragon @ Aug 28 2010, 12:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497504">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That dark side preview also has a different sounding "throw it all away" theme, or at least, it seems quite different to me. more guitar heavy and different chord progression.


    That shadow eye intriges me. I would like to belive that is what we're looking for, but in a later scene seen in the trailer, shadow's eyes are perfectly fine. I doubt they would mix such different characther design for the same characther in one video.


    anyways, where is this video from? the final game? or some sort of preview from a show or something?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If you beat Hero Side first, it shows you a sort of "Next time on Sonic Adventure 2..." style preview for Dark Side Story. Similarly, if you beat Dark Side first, it shows you one for the Hero Side.

    If you beat one first and then beat the other, it shows you a preview for Final Story.
     
  19. I wouldn't rule the eye thing out as being just an animation error.
     
  20. Black Squirrel

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    <!--quoteo(post=497194:date=Aug 27 2010, 05:03 PM:name=Hitlersaurus Christ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hitlersaurus Christ @ Aug 27 2010, 05:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=497194">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing I remember reading before SA2 was released was that the winner of a create a character contest Sega of America held online in 2000 or so was named Nails the Bat and would be featured in SA2... I can't really find anything about Nails being the winner right now, but I definitely remember that contest. (My entry was a red hedgehog named Blaze who was just like Sonic but slightly slower and had a stronger spin dash called the break dash... I was 10 so it seemed cool at the time)
    Does anyone else remember this or did I hallucinate the whole thing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This does sound familiar though I think I've heard one or two conflicting stories. I personally seem to remember a character creation contest here though for some reason I also seem to want to pair that with the Sonic R toys given away at Burger King (this was around the time of Sonic R's PC release, so late 1998, early 1999). My memory's a bit hazy about all of that.

    "Nails the Bat" also sounds familiar though.

    A quick google search shows that barely any dreamcast magazines have been accounted for. I mean there were at least three dedicated Dreamcast mags in the UK alone. I think there might be something of value if someone was to dig this stuff up.
     
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