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The Sonic 3, 20th Anniversary & Knuckles Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The Taxman, Oct 18, 2014.

  1. You-Are-Pwned


    I noticed a funny thing:

    Nonetheless, I'm very happy about it, even if it never gets released. Thanks for a detailed blog post and explanation, too. As a fan of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, I appreciate this a lot.
  2. Jen


    #lapidot Moderator
    Various drawings
    Beautiful work, Taxman and Stealth; thanks for sharing it with us.

    Yep, same here. I bought CD on XBox 360, Steam, and my recently acquired Android phone (which, obviously, I also have Sonic 1 and 2 for - they were the first two apps I downloaded on the phone, in fact).

    I can't believe it's been 20 years today since Sonic & Knuckles' release though, bloody hell; it was actually released on my little brother's 5th birthday, which makes me feel quite old =P Sonic 3 & Knuckles has been my favourite game ever since 1994, so I'd love to see this get greenlit so much - a portable, enhanced version of what I consider to be the finest video game ever made? Yes fucking please.
  3. Machenstein


    Clearly those were based on Robotnik. :I
  4. Lilly


    United States
    Shang Mu Architect
    What particularly interested me is how you and Stealth got the special stages to work, Taxman. I had always wondered, sometimes furiously, what Sonic Team did to fake a 3D sphere like this on the Genesis, and you guys go into great detail explaining not only how it worked, but how you improved it in a very impressive way. That was a glorious read, and gives me a lot to think about for my own 2D projects.

    I seriously hope that you guys eventually get the chance to take that proof-of-concept somewhere in an official capacity, the footage of this thing in action is amazing. It's the best way to celebrate and remember this classic on its anniversary.
  5. E-122-Psi


    Should they need the resources... *cough COUGH*

    Hey, a guy can dream, can't he? :P
  6. Amazing... iOS, Android, and Windows store versions, please...

    Taxman and Stealth, what can fans/customers to do help bring this to market?

    If funding is an issue, there's enough interest about this game that a lot of money could be raised through something like Kickstarter.
  7. Beltway


    The most grateful Sonic fan of all time this week Member
    Sega of Darkest Peru
    Artwork and classes
    Taxman and Stealth, you sly dogs, you've have done it again! That POC concept looks like the promise of something beautiful. At the same time though, it also leaves me pissed that Sega doesn't see a big fat oppurtunity to give one of the best games they've published the definitive experience. I'll have some very colorful choice of words about the bigwigs at Sega if they turn this down, especially considering the demand for a TaxStealth-helmed S3&K remaster and the mass support/approval they've gotten for their previous work. I guess we can just wait and see by this point. (As for the supposed MJ music rights issues, I'm pretty skeptical about it because it doesn't explain how Sonic Jam was able to receive a genuine port of Sonic 3 with it's music intact -and this was released after the Sonic and Knuckles Collection port that replaced some of the Sonic 3 music tracks).

    Really loving the idea of expanding the Competition Zones into full-blown acts and adding additional special stages with new twists. Hope that gets into the remaster if it does get approved.
  8. GeneHF


    SEGA-ier than you'll potentially ever be. Site Staff
    Scenic Studiopolis
    Complete Global Conquest
    I always approve of the idea of making Chrome Gadget a full blown stage (or a one act one.)
  9. Lord Nero

    Lord Nero

    Resident Nintendo Hater. Member
    Claymont, DE.
    Let's Plays, Work and Animation.
    ............. Sorry, my jaw just hit the floor.
    This was a wonderful treat for today, and that blog post certainly got me excited about the prospects of an eventual *hopefully* official remaster. Competition zones as main game acts?! Instant buy from me!
    Just think about that potential, especially if they remain like how Hidden Palace was in Sonic 2, alternate acts.
    Thinking about which zones would get the alternate competition acts:

    I love Azure Lake as a Hydrocity alt. (Being Angel Island's seems weird due to the fire theme brought on, but I guess Marble Garden could work as well)
    Balloon Park is obviously Carnival Night alt
    Chrome Gadget I could see best as a Launch Base alt, be a great way to throw in Big Arms as the boss too, since CGZ would simply be a different section of LBZ leading to the Death Egg *and set at night for w/e reason*
    Desert Palace, maybe as a Flying Battery alt, fall off someplace in Act 1, land in an earlier section of Sandopolis.
    Endless Mine is obviously Lava Reef alt.
    If they still have original bosses (CGZ can have an original lead up boss I guess?), then EMZ would need one hell of a kickass original boss to top the original Lava Reef's :psyduck: (assuming I'm right anyway)

    I've always wondered, isn't it possible that when midi-fying all the tracks, Carnival Night/Ice Cap/Launch Base just ended up sounding like crap or something, and instead of fixing them up to sound better, just, ya know.... made different tracks?
    Ice Cap isn't even Michael Jackson anyway, so why would that one be changed?
    This post isn't directly to you btw, just always wondered this and your post reminded me about it. :thumbsup:
  10. Knucklez


    I love 2B 'n' ass. Member
    Happy 20th! Now to find an unopened or mint condition genesis copy of Sonic 3/Sonic & Knuckles.
  11. Afro Thunder

    Afro Thunder

    Call Da Doctor! Member
    NS, Canada
    Trying to get outta Dr. Dre mode, and actually release an album.
    As far as Ice Cap goes, it's not out of the question that Brad Buxer (or anyone else on that sound team for that matter) got the greenlight from MJ to make an original composition for the game by himself, hence its "Hard Times" influence. Of course, one has to wonder if there's a statue of limitations concerning this whole thing, as, if I recall correctly, there was quite a few composers on this game outside of MJ and his crew, and Howard Drossin.
  12. ICEknight


    Researcher Researcher
    I think they "just" meant that they'd make the competition mode full screen.
  13. big smile

    big smile

    I really hope this gets to see the light of day, especially with all the amazing effort Taxman and Stealth have put into it.


    In Stealth's blog there are manaul translations by Yash and Liz. Do any more of these exist? Are Yash and Liz community members or Sega staff?

    I think they "just" meant that they'd make the competition mode full screen.

    I would be wonderful to see the 2P stages as proper levels, but I guess that would require an even bigger budget. It would be nice if the 1P levels could be turn into 2P stages (as in Sonic 2 remastered). The larger Sonic 3 levels would certainly make for some interesting races.
  14. nesboy43


    Very cool video and from the blog post it makes me happy to see you are ensuring everything is done right. There have been so many shoddy ports of this game and other Genesis games, that it makes me pretty sad. As for adding new features, I am curious to what can be done. Do we know of any scrapped levels in S3/K?

    Working on this game is a bit like touching up the Mona Lisa, but I know if anyone can do it right, it would be either Taxman and Stealth or M2.

    I always wondered why no one had made the multiplayer levels in full screen yet.

    It looks like until those ongoing lawsuits involving the composers are finished, that we will see little to nothing of S3 and K in the future.
  15. Icewarrior


    I'm a member of S.T.A.R.S !!11!!!1!! Member
    OK, I was always one to say you guys should rather make an all new Sonic with Retro Engine instead of remaking the classic stages but this looks really really beautiful actually.

    If it ever happens to be approved by SEGA, I'm hoping for a console release like for Sonic CD this time.
  16. Baldy McNosehair

    Baldy McNosehair

    I can't lower my standards, so up yours. Banned
    Grad School
    Does this mean you guys started from scratch in recreating S3K, or were you able to use most of the same Retro Engine from S1, 2, and CD? The physics don't seem like they are any different, just some of the techniques for rendering backgrounds.

    You guys have a much better judgement than Sega of what should be faithfully identical to the original game and where to make enhancements, like the use of 3D rendering and improved rotation effects in special stages. Sonic 3 & Knuckles is fairly easy for a Sonic game, has there ever been talk about ways to make the game more challenging?

    And as for Lord Nero's suggestion, it looks like a good idea and some free levels would kick ass, but I don't know that I would integrate them into the main story. The music seems too cheery, but it's also too good to waste. I'm more of a fan of adding them extra levels after the first playthrough. Then again, if I were to put each level in a certain place...
    • I would put Azure Lake between Hydrocity and Marble Garden and sort of explain it away as Hydrocity being at the bottom of the lake, similar to Atlantis.
    • I would put Balloon Park as a hidden shortcut in CNZ Act 2, where the barrel of death is. If you move the barrel up and down hard enough and then jump at the top of the barrels rising motion, I would have it launch Sonic into a transition into Balloon Park and bypass the boss (which is essentially a reversioning of the Hydrocity boss except less fun) into a new and better boss.
    • I would put Chrome Gadget in between Launch Base and Mushroom Hill. Instead of Sonic just falling through the sky as night turns into day in the end of Sonic 3, this stage would better explain what happens the night before Mushroom Hill.
    • And Desert Palace logically seems like a fit between Flying Battery and Sandopolis. Instead of having Sonic jump out of the ship when he does, the ship could land over in Desert Palace.
    • And that leaves Endless Mine between Sandopolis and Lava Reef. The motif fits well between the two zones given the proximity of the Death Egg and Eggman's need for energy sources to support its reconstruction and the rebuilding of his robots until he steals the Master Emerald, not to mention the consistency between Endless Mine and Lava Reef Act 1.

    But this is all assuming Sega would approve of extending the game like that, and that Taxman and Stealth have the time and are given the resources by Sega to recreate full size versions of the tiles and objects from the 2P levels. On top of that, who would compose the music for the levels?
  17. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Working on my art!
    Well, despite this possibly never seeing the light of day, there's always the original (and Sonic 3 Complete, which I just played through in honor of the occasion)
  18. Mecha Sally

    Mecha Sally

    I always find it funny how people think the music for those three zones was changed in S&K Collection because they sounded bad when MIDI-fied, yet I've heard plenty of fan-made MIDIs of the Genesis versions over the years that sound perfectly fine. Was is really that hard for SEGA to do the same thing?

    Anyway, this looks awesome! Dunno if I'd ever buy it (can't play these games using touchscreen; it's too awkward for me), but it'd be cool to see it become a thing.
  19. Sappharad


    Touch Arcade posted a nice lengthy article on this today, which I think they do a good job explaining the situation:

    Not quite as mainstream as some other sites that could've written about it, but they're probably one of the most well known sites dedicated to mobile games and gave some good reviews of the previous remasters.
  20. TheKazeblade


    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    Full single-player iterations of the 2P levels?! Yes please.

    Sega, uh... please? Please give them the green light? :ohdear: