The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog available now for PC and Mac

Project my what? I assure you this line is extremely inconsequential for me, I just understand that it would feel off for others. But like, it can trend toward the sensationalist, y'know? I feel like that shouldn't be a massively controversial thing to say. And hey! If it being in the Sonic universe does mean the kind of fantasy conflict the series normally sees, then honestly that's an interesting idea for fan media to try.

Also, "we don't treat Eggman as a literal international war criminal" is not a universally-accurate statement. I don't, and I think it's pretty silly to try and make that a reality in-universe, but plenty of fans (and lots of usually older western media) take that shit extremely seriously.

My point is simply that it's weird to have it both ways, to crave the dangerous thrills that appeal about one type of media while dealing with extremely-similar danger in your day-to-day life. I definitely wouldn't get escapist satisfaction watching a movie about a bored factory worker shittweeting on his phone.

 

I don't think that saving the world from totalitarianism and/or destruction is similar enough to a murder mystery to warrant that point, though.

 

Sorry, I'm getting my wires crossed between the idea that true crime in the Sonic universe is necessarily distinct from fighting Eggman and the idea that it's all the same comparatively low-stakes crime that the Chaotix would solve, which usually also involves mustache-twirling villains similar to and including Eggman himself.

I guess what I'm saying is that outside the comic books with an explicit intent to make mysteries for them to solve, the Chaotix's shtick isn't really that different from other heroes in the series.

 

I'm necro-ing this thread to kind of expand on an earlier post I made: suppose that SEGA creates another full-fledged murder mystery Sonic game, in the same vein as Ace Attorney Investigations or perhaps some other VN mystery game I haven't played. How would it even work?

From what I got of Barry's character, he's pretty much a loser, so I can't see him getting a law degree or becoming a detective. Thus, I can't really see him being the main character. And yet, I can't see the Chaotix being the main characters either, because when you introduce characters with superpowers, you have to assume that anyone might have superpowers, IE the culprit and victim. Mysteries need to involve a human level of logic and ability in order to be compelling, I think. It would have to star an entirely new character, and not involve any of the superpowered Sonic cast. Only less capable characters from IDW or otherwise.

The stakes for an Ace Attorney-style game need to be dramatic with at least one life-or-death scenario, and with character-driven conflict and drama, otherwise there's not much of a compelling reason to keep playing, and finding the true culprit won't be very exciting. I can't see a "low stakes" VN where the mystery is who stole from the cookie jar, and something more "down to earth and introspective" that others suggested is just too smart for Sonic IMO. At the same time, I just can't see actual murder crime being part of this series. It's too real. Even if it's there, I definitely can't see it with guns, and especially not blood. Cases would instead need to involve things like theft, arson, or maybe even vice since gambling exists. Bombings could also work, as long as there are no casualties.

I'm genuinely trying to consider what a game like that might look like, because if you can't use any of the principle Sonic cast, and you're limited on what kinds of cases you can include, then is there a point to tying it to the Sonic IP at all?

 

I think this falls apart right here. I understand where you are coming from, because mysteries have to have a logical order of actions so as not to become bullshit, but paranormal detectives do exist in fiction. Even Martin Mystery for kids and teens! You just have to make the rules of the universe clear as you proceed, although even an "anything goes" wacky kind of story can be done and be fun in its own right.

As for stakes, Detective Peach shows that you can make a pretty low-stakes story. The tone is fairly childish, but the stories are there, an even then the implications are often serious if you think about them for too long. I think it's possible to make a mystery about someone disappearing or being robbed (like you said) or even an allegory of being murdered (like roboticization was in Archie/SatAM).

Arson, bombings and other far-reaching events can work too, like floods or hurricanes. The superpowers can help with that, even. It's doable. I can see the Chaotix on it. The universe rules for each mystery just have to be clear. Once the mechanism is explained, people will accept anything even if the logic isn't human.

 

The lesson to take from Murder of Sonic is definitely "genuine writing and likable characters can sustain any kind of Sonic story", and possibly "Sonic can work as a visual novel", but probably not "murder mysteries are the new hotness for the series".

 

Paranormal detectives do exist, yes (I loved Mystery Inc) but the difference is that in a show, the story plays out for you without the viewer needing to assemble their own logic. In a video game, it's interactive. The player, a human being, takes an active role in solving the mystery. Thus when the rules of that world are different from our own, it's inherently less immersive, because now the player can't think like themselves, like they would in AA. Now they have to think like Sonic.

In addition, in Martin Mystery, or Mystery Inc, the things they investigate may be paranormal, but the detectives are not. Our heroes are normal people, give or take a few gadgets. What happens when both the detectives and the subject are paranormal? What happens to a mystery when the Chaotix are capable of flying, crawling on the ceiling, turning invisible, and breaking down walls? Now your logic has to include why they can't, or choose not to, use these skills to help solve the case. Since he can turn invisible, what is stopping Espio from breaking into high-security areas to find evidence, or searching through a suspect's personal belongings? What stops Vector from escaping, or breaking into, a locked room? What stops Charmy from being able to keep a lookout over an entire city block? And if they do use all of these skills, then how does that not remove at least some of the effort of solving a mystery on the user's end, since they're only human? You're better off trying to make an action game with that setup than a murder mystery adventure game, and, well...there it is.

And I haven't played the new Showtime, but isn't Detective Peach a very small part of the game? For it to be the entire game, rising towards a climax, with a much bigger focus on storytelling and character development, I would expect higher stakes. It's just inherently more exciting when a character we care about has their life on the line, which is why AA rarely does more civil cases.

In a Sonic game, such an ability would be played straight, but in AA, being able to channel the dead doesn't actually help you that much, because it's not permissible evidence in the realistic legal investigations and court system it portrays. Granted, it is relevant for a small handful of cases, but even there it's very limited in what it adds and is mostly there for flavor.

And yes, maybe the takeaway is that this genre is unsuitable for Sonic aside from this one instance. But damn it, I want it to be. Ace Attorney with Sonic characters is a neurodivergent's wet dream.

 

I'd be all for a wacky Chaotix spin-off in which you solve one or multiple cases.

The cases and stakes can be easily made Sonic-tailored. Like, someone stole the Chaos Emeralds and you're hired to locate them. Or Sonic went missing, you eventually discover that he was captured by Eggman, so you try to track this one down. Toward the end you infiltrate his base and release Sonic, then he takes over from there and kicks Eggman's ass while you go collect your paycheck.

 

If they give us a Sonic dating sim next year I'm all for that...so long as it isn't weird. Just friend dates, like Papyrus in Undertale. Honestly it'd be cool to just have the characters written in a context where they're just hanging out with the only drama being interpersonal, like an episode of Boom might have it.

 

I don't think I ever think like myself in a mystery, at least. Since you have to think out of the box and suspend all your disbelief so you can let the evidence speak for itself regardless of your preconceived notions, what immerses yourself is accepting the foreign rules in the first place so you can play with the clues you have. I understand you're specifically imagining AA with Sonic characters, in which case superpowers do make it more difficult to accommodate mysteries that happen in a universe where literally anything can happen, so you can't really formulate an hypothesis. But it isn't the only way to make a mystery work in a game!

There's this Touhou cooking fangame that I really love, and that of course isn't a mystery. But you have to make food that characters like by matching recipe and ingredients tags (adding Ice to any recipe makes it end up with the tag Refreshing, for example) with their tags, while avoiding the ones they hate. Now, the recipes are all foods that exist in our world, but you have to find out what characters like by either trying to make something for them or finding clues about them somewhere else. If you know the characters, you'll be able to guess what pleases some of them the first time around (Cirno loves Refreshing foods), but otherwise this loop ends up not being too dissimilar to a mystery insofar as you have to formulate a hypothesis according to available information, test it and see what new information that brings. So kinda like Clue too: if you changed Colonel Mustard for Tails, Revolver for Spin Attack and Billiard Room for Chemical Plant, the game would still make just as much sense and (I believe) be just as immersive because the valid logic is contained to the available information and the ruleset (including implicit rules such as "there wasn't an accomplice").

It ends up being a very systematic adventure game, but it still works. Here's what I'm picturing: so imagine you are the Chaotix walking around a map just like in Sonic Battle, and can find out information about the characters by talking to other characters, flying, crawling on the ceiling, turning invisible and breaking down walls. Relationships, traits, possessions, superpowers -- but they're all in a single information system (such as tags). The loop asks you to make an accusation in three days, and every day consists of three periods. So you have nine periods to acquire information about places, characters and circumstances. In each period, you can visit one location for each character, where you will find clues or talk to suspects. So you have up to 27 actions to formulate a hypothesis. There is an implicit rule that everyone will give true and accurate information, even the culprit (so long as it doesn't incriminate them), and tags are also always True and Accurate (talking to Shadow about Sonic wouldn't give Sonic a Slow tag, for example; at worst you wouldn't find any information). In the hypothesis you have to specify a culprit, a location (where the crime took place, or where a stolen item is being held, or where the culprit might have run off to; depends on the case), and a reason. They're all tags you have to select from.

This is an example, and I was cooking up a sample case to show for it, but I think it'd be too much. The point is that I think you can have myteries in the Sonic universe, as long as there's an information system you can trust to be True and Accurate, and that you have to use to solve them.

My take is that one of the best parts of Battle is the quasi-slice of life segments of visiting people in their homes. It feels really cozy.

 

Good thing the Sonic community isn't known for modifying games or anything. Surely that could have consequences.

 

Hedgeswap Friendship Simulator is the closest we're going to get, I'm afraid.

(I still want to make this for real)