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THE KEN PENDERS CHRONICLES: PendersCON Alert level 5- something actually made it to sale

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The KKM, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. David The Lurker

    David The Lurker

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    Did Ken actually say that no one should use characters they didn't create? I know he's been unhappy with how Ian treated certain characters, and even gone so far as to say Ian didn't understand a couple of them. And I think he also made a criticism where he wondered why Ian wasn't creating new characters and only using preexisting ones (because no new characters = less creativity, or something). But has he ever said, straight up, that the only person who should be able to use the characters he created is him. Because I don't recall him ever saying this. And I feel like I'd remember him saying something like that, considering how long I've been following the man.

    Yeah. That is...strange. I know he's said he didn't like the original colors of the issue, but it really does seem like a fan has offered to make it more game accurate, and he just went along with it, with no real forethought or understanding. It feels like Ken Penders is kinda flyinng from the seat of his pants, with no clear plan as to what should happen next. And has an imposed deadline for a reprint collection when he has never seemed all that concerned with having a deadline for his other works. Guess he feels he has to stroke while the iron is hot, or something.

    I guess we don't. Though it would still be nice to have a proper, complete collection of Archie that gives it the historical context it needs. Archie was never going to give it to us, and there was a part of me that hoped Ken would actually try since it is his life's work, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. Not that Ken should be the only person in charge of how these stories are available (they were a group effort, and he wasn't involved in a fair amount of them).

    As for the recolors...well, I made my position pretty clear if anyone bothered to look at the replies to Ken's original tweet. I could continue to respond, but I think he's made his mind up. I think they look wrong, kinda ugly, and undermine their original vision. But at the same time, it doesn't really matter. There are other ways to read this comic.

    Which reminds me. Hey, we have a wiki. Would be cool if it became a proper resource about the comics, right? That's what it's there for.

    Oh right also

    They didn't change the kiss scene in A New Hope. The kiss in Empire has an alternate, deleted version where they are a bit more intimate about it, but I don't think there's a version of that famous swinging scene in A New Hope where Leia gives a kiss for luck and it's a full on, lip-locking SMOOCH. Unless I am completely misremembering. Granted, the kiss in the comic book adaptation is a bit more face to face, but that's the comic.
     
  2. Deep Dive Devin

    Deep Dive Devin

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    Yes, to be clear, my point was that the thing Ken is doing is something we don't need, not that there's no merit to a proper, accessible release of the entire Archie Sonic saga (physical or digital). It's just that Ken debatably doesn't actually care about anything that isn't relevant to his own work, and even if he did we knew from the start he had no shot at getting huge chunks of it.

    I'd say Archie's digital remasters did disservice to the original and it sucks that there's no high quality scans of the unedited versions, but Hollie solved that a few months ago and remastered the old versions herself. So on all fronts, anyone who wants to has great access to either release of Archie...just not an official one.

    Now all we need is good StC rescans, and the myriad of obscure and untranslated lost media that is Sonic's various manga.
     
  3. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    He never outright says it, but he's made it clear the original creator is the 'de facto' source on that character:
    "I consider the creators of any character to be the main source of how to handle the character they created. They were the ones who made the character(s) special in the first place."

    And will argue against any attempt by other creators to use said character to build on, like Bucky Barnes:
    "My feeling is Ed Brubaker should have kept the Winter Soldier wholly original instead of using Bucky Barnes as the foundation of the character, much like Ian should've made Scourge wholly original. Woulda, coulda, shoulda & all that."
     
  4. Jaxer

    Jaxer

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    Been doing that for the past few months. I can't believe that Archie's original 1992 miniseries didn't even have a page until a few weeks ago!

    And speaking of that, the miniseries omni could use a lot of improvement. There's no need to have separate "Development" pages for each series when there's so little to tell about their backgrounds, not to mention that "Development" is the wrong word anyway. Same with the "Reception" pages, it's extremely difficult to find resources about the general consensuses of late 90s spinoffs of a children's comic book, so we might as well not mention it at all.

    But if anyone here is a walking encyclopedia of in-universe Archie Sonic information, we could sure do with new pages for characters, locations, objects and events. The last time I checked, not even King Acorn has a page, and that's a character who's also seen in SatAM!
     
  5. David The Lurker

    David The Lurker

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    Woah! I'll have to dive in deep later, but Hollie's version just in the tweets already look better than what Archie ever did with it. This project flew right under my radar. Even bothering with the Sonic-Grams pages? Now that's dedication.

    I'd argue that the "Development" and "Reception" links should remain. Right, we might not really know much about how the Tails mini-series came to be, but we definitely know there's a pretty deep story about the creation of the Princess Sally one. And if it would make more sense for the original Sonic mini-series history to be on the main "Development" page for the Archie comic, that's what redirects are for. As for the reception pages, yes, it's not like there were reviews for each and every issue in Wizard Magazine. But they should be there if we can find something to insert. Just can't treat it in the same way we treat the reception page to the original Sonic the Hedgehog game.

    Right, it reads as Ken being unhappy with how Ian used some of the characters he created. Not that Ian should have never, ever touched them. When it comes to the example he is talking about in that first linked thread, re:Black Lightning, the creator of the character is allowed to express their dissatisfaction with how a company can use it. That doesn't mean they are right, but their opinion is valid. Ken is also friends with Elliot S! Maggin, who created Superboy Prime. I can bet you that he was extremely unhappy with what DC did to the character two decades later. If either alternate takes were the best storytelling decision, you can certainly have a conversation about. Just like one could argue if Ian's take on Scourge was good or bad (which, my feeling is most people were all aboard Ian's take on the character). But neither of those tweets have Ken saying no one should ever use a character they didn't create. He just wouldn't have done those things himself, and is expressing that with shades of "old man yells at cloud" energy. If you do use someone else's characters in any continuation or adaptation, having a respect for the source material makes sense. But also, respect should not mean you are forced to restrict yourself over possible storytelling avenues. The Winter Soldier story wouldn't mean nearly as much if Bucky Barnes wasn't the one behind the mask, after all.
     
  6. Deep Dive Devin

    Deep Dive Devin

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    I dunno. If it were simply a difference of opinion on how it was executed, I don't think Penders would act in the way he has (maybe he would even read the comics he complains about). Everything he's ever said about Flynn, Bollers et al. has suggested that he doesn't think they had the right to do anything they did. Maybe if you pressed him he'd say "if they did it the way I'd wanted that would be fine", but "the way I'd wanted" could only ever mean his work and his work alone.
     
  7. Jaxer

    Jaxer

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    New Knuckles Omnibus page dropped, this time from the Sonic & Knuckles special.

    GXUEmSAbgAAQvo9.jpg
    No offense to the new colorist, but the more I look at it, the worse it gets.
     
  8. shilz

    shilz

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    getting my daily allowance of vitamin kk
    On the bright side, he found a way to stop himself from using the floating island he always uses.
     
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    It always does. Oh my f-, the scanlines aren't aligning with the damned monitor...

    Also, once again, assets from SEGA, is Penders planning to pay SEGA for their artist's work?

    EDIT: AND THE SCANLINES CUT OFF FROM THE TOP RIGHT CORNER this is an insult.
     
  10. Deep Dive Devin

    Deep Dive Devin

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    Original page for reference.

    Yeah, it wasn't so bad on the first couple, but at this point we're entering the Sonic design Uncanny Valley. It was less noticeable before with Manak's generally-scratchier art, but as soon as whoever this dude is takes his hatchet to a more polished artist, the whole thing starts feeling really weird. Mawhinney's style is definitely antiquated, but it fit well enough with the SatAM style fans were used to (he was a boarder on that show, after all!). The wide-eyed expressions but half-closed eyelids made sense for characters with large irises, but changing them to something more standard weakens that expression overall. I believe they call it dull surprise?

    It's a shame too, because like with before, the colors themselves aren't unpleasant, it's the way the art edits weren't thought the whole way through that gives it this uncomfortable mish-mash of visual information. I'm guessing Spaziante may not consent to involvement with this (since he still occasionally works with SEGA, and probably has more respect for the brand than Ken), and I can only say thank goodness we don't have to see what Penders's new guy thinks "fixing" his art would be like.

    Finally, I want to share something that I thought was hilarious but hadn't make it to this thread yet.

    Penders is considering revising the Edmund and Dimitri backstory to remove their familial connection, specifically so that Knuckles and Julie Su are no longer two cousins dating each other. Hilariously, his decision-making process here appears to be letting his readers decide exactly how much cousin-fucking they would like in the comic.

    Or, as I put it, SHOULD MY STORY CONTAIN INCEST? VOTE NOW ON YOUR PHONES
     
  11. Kilo

    Kilo

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    It's not a Pender's story without incest. I think he should revise his stories instead so everyone ever is the result of cousin fucking. :V
     
  12. Blue Blood

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    If not for incest, how else can you explain the constant family dramas and horribly disfigured character designs? It's pivotal to the believability of his entire universe.
     
  13. Deep Dive Devin

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    If lead poisoning can influence US voting demographics as much as it does, I say every bit of insane Penders writing can be chalked up to radiation sickness. That did drive Kodos insane, after all.
     
  14. Jaxer

    Jaxer

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    I find it absolutely hilarious how he's willing to dial the incest down after years of ridicule over it, yet remains hell-bent on the whole "Geoffrey fucked a minor and got away with it" -angle.

    And one more funny thing about the coloring - the Freedom Fighters are colored to resemble their Post-Reboot Archie redesigns.

    22lkpyywa9ua1.jpg

    Yes, Ken Penders' new independent publication is imitating character designs that were literally created to be as far removed from his work as possible.
     
  15. Sparks

    Sparks

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    They're trying way too hard to take notes from the modern Sonic comics designs and coloring instead of just embracing the weirdness of the 90s designs. Sonic and Tails look particularly janky, and now look even less fitting next to the Freedom Fighters.
     
  16. Deep Dive Devin

    Deep Dive Devin

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    Oh god, look at Rotor's fingers -- they tried to give him the fingerless gloves from the modern designs but they didn't even line them.
     
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  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Avert your eyes, man! It's only going to get worse!
     
  18. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

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    Good catch. I’m convinced he’s trying to goad SEGA and/or Archie.

    Ken is a one-trick pony whose only claim to any semblance of relevance post-career is in making an ass out of himself. He has long since killed any shred of credibility he’s had, the only reason people still talk about him is because this self-inflicted train wreck is too entertaining to look away from.

    -----

    Ken, if you’re reading this by any chance, not all press is good press. Mark my words, we will all forget about you once you’re either slapped with an overwhelmingly binding C&D from your former bosses, or when you pass. Is this how you want to carry out your later years? Get off of Twitter and go spend some quality time with your family and friends offline. Quit while you can, dude.

    As harshly as I speak of and to you (assuming you ever read this, and I suspect you may occasionally keep up on this thread), I don't think you're a monster. You're just a flawed guy that needs to chill out and commit to enjoying life for what it is with those you care about, and stop pestering the rest of the world about the long-gone past that was never actually yours to begin with.

    Alternatively, since you seem to fancy yourself an entertainer, I will be amused as I watch you self-destruct on your current path. The inevitable legal drama will be quite popcorn-worthy. On a legit note, though, I don't recommend it. It'll just be another footnote in the long history of human pettiness through the ages.

    You had exceedingly dumb luck from your first round of legal battles (only due to lack of proper document preservation on the part of Archie, but don't pretend you weren't obligated to honor those terms). You're toast if you think you can just reprint a bunch of this stuff unlicensed and use pixel art from the games.

    In any case, I always love a good excuse to bust out the old Flavacol. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2024
  19. Antheraea

    Antheraea

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    also shout out to him just putting the S3&K Angel Island sprite in there instead of using the original art for some reason? what is even the point of doing that?
     
  20. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    I had successfully avoided this thread for a long time, now got curious, and I instantly regret it...

    ...and I had very fond memories of 90s Archie...