THE KEN PENDERS CHRONICLES: now licensing world-famous characters like Geoffrey St.John TO YOU

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The KKM, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    Is it really plausible to assume that Archie would forge a signature for a contract rather than just write up a new one for its current employees? If they did, that's the most stupid move they could have possibly made. Seriously, the crap being revealed about both sides in this debacle is just ridiculous.
     
  2. You know something? Penders has stated from the beginning of this sickening debacle that the contract copy Archie has produced is a fake, but has never given any proof other than just his word (and his word isn't exactly unbiased... or consistent). Why wouldn't he hire an expert, someone who can analyze signatures and tell if there's a certain likelihood that they were written by the same person or not? I know that they probably aren't as good as crime shows on TV make them out to be, but they could still give a bit more credibility to that argument. I mean, he has four lawyers, after all (what.).

    Then again, if Penders is lying/not remembering correctly, and that really IS his signature (which I think it is), then the expert might conclude that. Which would end his case in a hurry. And rather badly so for him.

    Or, if you want a crazy conspiracy theory (to use the term lightly), maybe Penders paid the incompetent employee to lose his contract so that he could exploit its disappearance like this, along with others' to increase the instability of Archie's claims. Probably after Archie denied his request for royalties. In 1996. Hrmm... (I'm not being serious, here, obviously. But it would still be really amusing if this turned out to be the case.)

    Seriously, though, I still doubt Archie would fake that. It's legal and financial suicide to forge a document like this, especially since it could very easily be found out (granted, it also easily could *not*, but why risk it?).
     
  3. Kampfer

    Kampfer

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    What exactly are the contents of the contract?

    As for the signature, Zepher, whether or not it is his is a trial issue, and both sides will hire an expert and the so-called "dueling experts" will fight over the same evidence and come to opposite conclusions and the jury would be the one to decide.
     
  4. Tylinos

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    Well, I was going to post about how someone found a backup directory of posts from Ken's old forum, but I had to change it a bit because a minor problem came up.

    http://www.kenpenders.com/wwwboard/messages/?C=M;O=A

    Okay, so these are the saved posts, but when I checked it again before starting this post, I saw something was missing. Yesterday there was a subfolder named "legal", with just posts from Ken himself on various subjects. Some of them were Ken discussing legal stuff way back around 2005 and 2006, and others seemed to be just random (but sometimes interesting) posts. And now that folder has vanished, probably because Ken or Bob didn't want those in particular spread around. (Although I think a lot of the posts that were in there might be among the other backups as well, but they'd be a lot harder to find.)

    Anyway, since I can't link directly, I'll just quote a few things I found amusing or interesting and managed to save before they were taken down (With links to the ones I could track down among the other posts.):
    what
    are you serious

    That's certainly one character I would have never expected someone to have any plans for. (Especially Ken, given that Eddy wasn't his character.)

    Compare that to what he says of the company now.

    Brought this one up because it ties to something he mentioned recently about having his hands tied in the #144 to #159 era, and gives a bit more information on it.

    And then he went and did it anyway.

    Sure stuck to that line of thinking, I see.



    Links to the ones I quoted which I could find backups of:
    http://www.kenpenders.com/wwwboard/messages/73000/73562.html (Third quote)
    http://www.kenpenders.com/wwwboard/messages/73000/73738.html (Fourth quote)
    http://www.kenpenders.com/wwwboard/messages/73000/73865.html (Fifth and sixth quotes)
    (Couldn't find the original sources on the first and second quotes because I only had the text pasted over in #comics. The others I still had the post numbers on, which made things easier.)
     
  5. Retroman

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    He's not gonna win, no leg etc.
     
  6. Tylinos

    Tylinos

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    Small update on the missing folder from BobR:
    Wow, because that sure isn't jerkish or anything. What a pal.
     
  7. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    The site-that shall-not-be-named has reported that apparently Scott Shaw has filed for copyright on his works as well. Has also claimed Archie never had him sign a work-for-hire contract. Penders made it obvious this was coming, but I wonder if this was Pender's best defense, the fact that there's someone else who's doing this. I wonder ho this'll play out.
     
  8. Greg the Cat

    Greg the Cat

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    I hope he's joining in on this case for Captain Carrot instead of Sonic. At least, then he'll have a leg to stand on.

    EDIT: Oh shit, that's Marvel comics, not Archie. Never mind, guys.
     
  9. Tylinos

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    This brings up something that's amused me about Penders' arguments: He's gone before and said that Ian having a contract has no bearing on whether or not anyone else has a contract (and also infamously twisted Ian's words in the process to make it seem like Ian was outright lying), but then says that things like Scott Shaw! claiming to not have a contract does have a bearing on whether or not he has a contract.

    I can see what Ken's trying to go for by claiming it, that Scott was around at a similiar time to when he was first employed, but that doesn't mean a damn thing. If he wants to argue Scott left around the time Ken joined, and the proximity of times means any argument by Scott about it applies to him, you could easily point out that Ian was hired at the same exact time Ken left.

    I'm not saying that means Ian having a contract means Ken does, but that Scott claiming to have no contract also doesn't mean Ken wouldn't either. It's incredibly flimsy and hypocritical logic.


    EDIT: By the way, when was the exact time Scott left the book? Was it before or after the claimed December 1996 contract for Ken? If before, then Scott has absolutely no bearing on the argument anyway.
     
  10. Tylinos

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    Sorry for double-posting, but recently I've been seeing some posts about the Ken stuff that have been annoying me. I'm just going to see things get worse and get more annoyed if I don't speak up, so there's something I want to say about it:

    People on both sides of the argument, whether you're in support of Ken or against him, could you please try to keep your posts at least somewhat respectful toward each other? I know that Ken strikes a lot of people as a jerk, and I feel that way about him myself, but when I see posts between people where they're treating each other like crap just because they have differing viewpoints here, it just makes you and the side you're trying to support look bad.

    I'm not talking about any one side here. I've seen people on both sides acting like this. I've seen people against him saying that Ken fans are idiots for liking him, and people supporting him saying that people who don't like him are childish and do nothing but throw baseless insults. If we keep this up, it's going to end up with people on each side in a loop of saying things that makes them look worse and worse to the other side. It's only going to annoy people.

    I may not like Ken, and I think he's acted like a prick, and I'm going to still voice that opinion, but I'd like to at least keep it with some sense of respect. And yes, I've acted disrespectfully myself before (The "Pen Kenders" thing, even though I was just trying to joke around with it, was a step too far, and I'm sorry for that), but I'd rather try to avoid doing stuff lke that. I know I definitely don't have any say over anyone here, but I want to at least ask you guys to do the same and not do stuff like that.



    Also, on a related note that apparently needs to be cleared up for some people yet again: The topic title was changed to how it is because of how Ken's acted over the past year or so, not simply because he made copyright claims in the first place. The original title from when this was simply about his claims and not his actions was much kinder toward him.

    And on the other side of things about that, just because someone wants royalties for their past work doesn't make them a greedy jerk. I'm starting to see some people insulting Scott Shaw! just because he's claiming copyright and nothing more. I think some of us on both sides are forgetting that's not why people are annoyed by Ken.
     
  11. David The Lurker

    David The Lurker

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    Hey, we haven't had a Ken Penders update in ages! What is the ol' mustached man doing this time?

    I don't exactly know what Ken is expecting here. Even if he wins his case, I'm sure his legal woes would not be over. While providing "Free Samples," he would still be unable to use Knuckles or anyone else in his future tales...even though it looks like he really, really wants to link everything together. So at the end of the day, for all the "I don't need to use Knuckles or any Sega elements to tell my story," he sure wants everyone to think of Knuckles and all the Sega elements in his story. The Knuckles: Twenty Years Later material...that might have been something I would have been interested in ten years ago. And to be fair, it would still be cool to take a glance at if it was including in an archive release or something...but it feels like that in his mind, that story still took place, and is just the first part in his three act FUTURE KNUCKLES STORY. The second being what he wrote and published, the third being what he wants to write but will likely never be published...

    ...ignoring all of this, why the heck does he want people to remember Sonic Live. Of all the stories he ever wrote for the comic, why does he have to focus on that one so much? Just because he used his son in it? I would love to know what his son thinks of it now. Yes, Ken keeps on saying that kids gravitate towards it, but I think its because the cover continues to promise that you'll get this awesome story of Sonic stepping into the real world and interacting with a pair of real kids. Instead you get a poorly written story with awkward art and photographs that don't mesh with the story. It could have been so much better even with the premise of Sonic being in the real world, and I don't care how much he intended to be in that story that wasn't. There's no way a Director's Cut of Sonic Live is going to improve the story.
     
  12. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    Talk about being out of touch with reality. Everyone HATES MXYL. Even the folks at Archie Comics have all but abandoned it now. Does he really think that people are gonna spend money for more of that crap?

    The man seriously needs to give up with all of his Knuckles remolds and move on to at least trying more original works. He's gotta be more delusional than the Aikbarangers if he thinks that SEGA will let him come within a 100 mile radius of any of their characters (including the ones created for the comic), especially after he singlehandely damaged their partnership with Archie Comics.
     
  13. Tylinos

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    As I pointed out on Ken's forum, putting those stories out for free is a pretty risky move even if he did end up having the rights to the stories themselves. Since Sega licensed the use of Sonic characters to Archie and not Ken, putting the old stories out for free would make them fall under the definition of fan fiction. And it seems this use of it would be one that actually breaks the legal fair use of fan fiction under US law.

    However, seeing bonus material actually does sound interesting either way. And as much as I hate the MxYL stories (Both the ones done by Ken and Ian), the 20 Years Later story might at least be worth looking at, if only because it's been teased for about 12 years now.

    And then there's Sonic Live!. What really bothers me about his apparent love of Sonic Live! is that whenever he responds to criticisms of it, it's usually "Well, you're not the target audience." Except that most of us were the target audience when it came out and we still hated it even then. Or at least I did.

    If there's anything from that post I'm actually looking forward to, though, it's that spectactular trainwreck known as The Republic. Anyone who hasn't seen the preview episode he put out last year really should. It's absolutely hillarious. "Dream on, moon unit!"
     
  14. Lanzer

    Lanzer

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    Well look, the only reason we are not talking about this is because theres only 1 Sonic related news site thats posting news about it and if we even menction this site in casual convosation were banned for a month (Or in my case, 1 thin string away from being perma-banned). You're one of the people who can bump a thread like this because well your an admin and well you trump any rule made.

    So unless the mods or admins want to keep this thread going or theres someone on the inside of Pender's forum willing to C/P any nonsense he posts, its not gonna get bumped much.
     
  15. Tylinos

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    This thread hasn't had enough happy in it. Let's talk about something good that's come out of Penders' recent works.

    Over at A Moment of Archie Sonic, along with discussing the Penders issues lately, the guy's been linking to some red line critiques of Penders' awful art, pointing out just what's wrong with the characters' anatomy and showing how to improve it:

    http://amomentofarchiesonic.tumblr.com/post/23177809178/cosmicremix-amomentofarchiesonic-answering-a
    http://amomentofarchiesonic.tumblr.com/post/23195121407/lien-da-red-line-under-the-read-more-more
    http://amomentofarchiesonic.tumblr.com/post/23202815495/I-want-to-play-too-and-what-does-her-skeleton
    http://amomentofarchiesonic.tumblr.com/post/23241164323/another-thing-that-never-fails-to-look-really
    http://amomentofarchiesonic.tumblr.com/post/23262849645/challenge-accepted
    http://amomentofarchiesonic.tumblr.com/post/23272482911/yanimae-oh-boy-cosmicremix

    So, what's the happy here? Well, it turns out that the person who did the first of the red line critiquing landed an internship because of it:
    http://cosmicremix.tumblr.com/post/23270853273/so-apparently-red-lining-ken-penders-artwork-can-get
    http://noseshark.deviantart.com/journal/Drawing-Fanart-helped-me-get-an-Internship-NEAT-302559211

    That's right, Penders' art is so bad that fixing it can get you a job. Congrats to noseSHARK/CosmicRemix on the internship!
     
  16. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    See ya starside. Member
    This seems interesting, but I don't want to read through over 30 pages to figure out what's going on. I assume that Ken is some writer that left years ago that's been acting really immature and demanding the rights to the Archie Sonic comic? Is there any better summary with more detail?
     
  17. Turbohog

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    That's basically it, although I'm not sure if he left or was fired. Besides that, all there is to know is that he was responsible for a lot of the shittier storylines in the series.
     
  18. Lanzer

    Lanzer

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    Ok you know how 2006 is the shitstain of the entire game franchise and no matter how well you do afterwards your allways reminded of that?

    Penders is like that for the comics. Bastard left a scar as big and deep as 2006 did.
     
  19. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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  20. Xeric

    Xeric

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    Yeah, pretty much. Penders' butt-monkeys(BobR, PaulAgnew) over at his forums have been gloating about it this morning. From what I've gathered Pender's legal team has given archie's distributors a "Cease and Desist" of some sort claiming they're distributing material that doesn't belong to archie. This is a very sneaky and underhanded tactic.

    If this is the case, it won't look good in court next week. Pender's has already been in trouble for enforcing 'his' copyrights despite the case still being ongoing.