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THE KEN PENDERS CHRONICLES: a man you Ken DePenders on

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The KKM, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. It doesn't seem like Penders really thought this one out. While it's highly unlikely, if this does go to court and Penders wins, there are only two things that could happen: he uses his original (in the broadest sense of the word) characters in another comic. However, as Ian Flynn points out in his forum, he would have to make so many changes to avoid stepping over Sega and Archie's intellectual property that it render the work unrecognizable to fans. The other possible outcome would be for Archie to pay him royalties for each time his characters are used. Archie pays up for past issues but never uses the characters again, denying Penders the consistent cash stream he desires. Like I said, I seriously doubt he'll make it that far but it's a lose/lose no matter the outcome.

    I have a similar question: I've been reading the Fleetway comics lately and I've read the first 50 issues of Archie back in its original run (I stopped shortly after 50). I've read about some of the story arcs and characters introduced since then and most of them sounded pretty stupid. I later heard about how much things improved after Ian Flynn took over and I'd like to see for myself. I know he started on issue 160 but I imagine it would have taken several issues to get up to pace. Basically I'm asking what the best starting point is for the "new and improved" Archie series.
     
  2. TSSZNews

    TSSZNews

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    It'll come down to the existence of a contract when it goes to court. At this rate, there's no doubt in my mind it will be litigious with the attention this has received.

    If Ken signed a work for hire contract and Archie can produce it, he's screwed. That no contract has been produced yet, and it hasn't been nipped in the bud is worrisome (they had to have seen this coming.) If one doesn't exist, or Archie's organizational skills have neglected it (which actually is a remote possibility), well...

    Part of me wonders if the real motive is to have some unpleasant internal practices of Archie we don't yet know about become public record in a lawsuit.
     
  3. Metal Knuckles

    Metal Knuckles

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    The video was made in 2006. =P

    Since I'm only 12 comics into the Archie series (no real plot as of yet), and the only other issues I read were 47, 48, and 51 (missed the good plot, damnit), I have to note that there never appeared to be any characters of real significance besides Tails, Sonic, Knuckles, Robotnik, and maybe Sally and Snively. Even if his claims on the material come out as him in the right, are we losing any characters of real significance?

    Edit: Although from the way things looks, Penders doesn't stand a ghost, of a chance!
     
  4. The KKM

    The KKM

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    As you venture forward, if you manage to read it all like I did, you'll realize that yes, especially after 50, around 80% of the book's mythology is in some way or another Penders'. From the Echidnas to Robotnik to the Royal Family.
     
  5. 0r4ng3

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    But it can't be the same, otherwise Penders would know that he stands no chance, and this is too much trouble for a publicity stunt. If it was the same, that contract would have found it's way to the internet already. Archie is letting this drag for unncessary time if this is such a 101 copyright deal. If I was them, such a contract would already be plastered in a sticky in the Bumbleking forums or whatever that place is called.

    Yes, exacly, such contract is the breaking deal and it hasn't been summoned yet. Ian has no clue either, and it would be something a lawyer or upper guy would tell him, because that is straightforward. That makes me suspicious of the whole deal.

    I hadn't even thought about dirty laundry but it's possible. What I was thinking was Penders successively halting the comic for a few months with a court decision. Even if everything goes back to Archie eventually, those months would doom the comic for cancellation. Or Sega gets a wiff of this and tells Archie to just cancel the comic or stop using stuff altogether, wether Penders is or isn't right, because they don't want this kind of hassle associated with Sonic.

    160 is when Flynn takes over. It's true that Penders had a run full of unnecessary drama and convoluted plots, but it still was interesting for some due to the Dark Legion for many (which in itself is mostly a ripoff). I refuse to believe that anyone was interested in the Royal family plots. Ian simplified things and took off the drama, but in my opinion, the work was weakened. It all runs on villain stupidity (that are quickly dispatched) and other Sonic media throwbacks.

    To the other one asking, in all of it's run, I still prefer Fleetway. But it depends from people to people. I've found that some are aggravated by Sonic's jerk attitute towards everyone, while I find it amusing and different.
     
  6. The KKM

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. Immortheus

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    Isn't there a law stating that if there is no contract, then the company is considered the author of the work? Or is that only for certain cases?
     
  8. Sik

    Sik

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    I don't think so. The only thing like that I know of is that you own copyright of everything you make unless you explicitly give it away.
     
  9. GeneHF

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    If he's successful, oh well, reboot time. Nothing of value was lost and a good chunk of the god awful characters and storyline get the hell out of there; a much needed purging.

    If unsuccessful, business as usual.

    I wouldn't mind a reboot back to #51. None of Ken's Original Characters Do Not Steal were really that great (incoming raging Julie-Su fanboys in 3... 2...) and his plots are on par with terrible fan fiction on DA, that one Sonic site with the crazy lady, and probably everywhere else on the Internet.
     
  10. Aquaslash

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    And here's one of them. Julie Su was my second fave for a great long time :colbert:
     
  11. Overlord

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    I'll agree with this in that there's nothing stopping you reading both, but from what I've read of both (admittedly not all of either, but most of Fleetway and a sizable chunk of Archie), Fleetway is the better comic.
     
  12. Dr. Mecha

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    Ken started to get support for his case.
     
  13. Immortheus

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    I love how he says this when not everyone who's worked on the book wins if he takes the rights to all of his characters. =|
     
  14. The Pulse

    The Pulse

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    Or maybe he just loves his kids a whole lot.

    Y'know, like, not being a shitty father
     
  15. Mr. Pictures

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    Maybe so, but why should we have to see it? And in the form of a Sonic comic book?

    As a writer Penders had a nasty habit of trespassing into areas which the comic never should entered at all (ie. divorce, the death of a friend, death in the family). The implementation of these ideas were often faulty and felt very forced. It was as if Ken had obligated himself to lecture and parent his readership. Comic books aren't for that.
     
  16. Arctides

    Arctides

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    Wow. That man's so full of shit I could use him to fertilize all the lawns in the state of Texas. Jesus Christ...
     
  17. Mr. Pictures

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    btw, has there been any official confirmation as to why Penders was fired? I only heard rumors.
     
  18. TheKazeblade

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    While I agree a comic like Sonic shouldn't be used for the purpose of spreading one's particular position, as a kid, I thought it was interesting that such topics were brought up. The comics helped me expand my vocabulary by quite a bit, and being a kid from a divorced situation, I found it cool that I could relate to someone like Knuckles in the comic with the situations he went through. At least as a kid (I would have to go through and read some of them again) I didn't think it felt forced; however a monthly comic is probably not the best avenue for going into too deep of subjects considering their periodic nature; that's where a graphic novel could be a better place for subjects. Still, I appreciated it when I was young.

    Sonic is definitely not the place you would expect or even want those types of things. However, speaking as one who grew up with the Archie comics, I can say that I believe it did a good job of introducing tough subjects in a way that kids would be able to understand. It made me think.

    I'm in no way supporting what Penders' is doing now, though. While I understand the part about him wanting a royalty when his earlier work is replicated, trying to copyright all of his characters so no one else can use them, regardless of how contrived they are, is just bad sportsmanship.

    However, looking at it from a good angle, this would be a good way of thinning the heard....
     
  19. Mr. Pictures

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    I actually went through a similar situation, but I found I couldn't relate to Knuckles' perspective; with him being caught in the middle of his feuding parents' intentions of whether he should grow up to be a guardian or not. I can't think the of anyone who could relate to something like that, so I found the idea weak and confusing, especially if it were trying to relate to kids.
     
  20. TheKazeblade

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    I don't want to get too far off topic, but as the example you gave goes, I can speak as someone who could relate to such a situation, considering I was always bouncing back between my mom and dad, and having to deal with being in the middle of parents that want two totally different things from their kids. However, not everyone's situation is the same, but as far as that goes, it was something I understood.

    That doesn't apply to everything he wrote though. And looking back, there were more than a few times the plot got ridiculously convoluted. And going back through some of the old issues, most of my favorite stories he had nothing to do with.