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THE KEN PENDERS CHRONICLES: a man you Ken DePenders on

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The KKM, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    The comic had a number of Fleetway references around the time Finitevus debuted, such as Tekno and Ebony cameos. So I think it's pretty much a given that major similarities from that era like Finitevus were inspired by StC.
     
  2. kitsunebi

    kitsunebi

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    To my knowledge, both Tekno and Ebony only ever appear in cameos put in as in-jokes by artist Jonathan Gray (who apparently also designed Finitevus), so while that one artist clearly had knowledge of StC, I'm not sure that constitutes proof that the writers were particularly influenced by it. You could be right, though. Of course, by the time those characters showed up in the Archie series, StC hadn't published any new stories for four years. And as I said, pretty much no one in America had access to StC (certainly not before access to the Internet and the creation of eBay), so I imagine those cameos flew right over the heads of 99% of the readers.

    And as for Finitevus...are you seriously suggesting that anyone other than Penders could have ever created an echidna character or that Penders could have ever received inspiration from anything other than the divinity of his own unassailable genius?
     
  3. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I meant the series in general:
    • Rogue Robotnik robot determined to defeat him that is one of his most advanced? Am I talking Shortfuse the Cybernik or E-102 Gamma/E-123 Omega?
    • Charmy Bee being a hyperactive, unfocused kid? Yup, Sonic the Comic had him that way from the start, before Sonic Heroes.
    • Charmy Bee being a prince? That was a thing for Sonic the Comic back in 1996, first instance of Charmy being a prince in Archie was in 1998 with that LSD episode, I think, if anyone can counter that?
    • Aliens with a vested interest in the Chaos Emeralds that left ruins around the planet? Oh boy, do we have a story to tell about a little thing called the Drakon Empire...

    The last thing, I think that's why I've never had a problem with Shadow the Hedgehog's plot: I've already had it via Sonic the Comic...
     
  4. kitsunebi

    kitsunebi

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    I suppose that Charmy being a prince in both series (I'll take your word for it on dates) might be hard to swallow as mere coincidence, but I don't see anything in the rest that isn't just instances of generic cliched storytelling. I mean, OF COURSE one of Robotnik's robots will turn against him, especially one of the more advanced ones, which are presumably smarter - and smart enough to realize he's no good. And a bee is characterized as hyperactive? That's as uncreative as having a sloth be lazy or an owl be wise.

    I'm not saying that Archie DIDN'T swipe those ideas, mind you, I'm simply saying that they were all examples of lazy generic storytelling the first time around, let alone a second (or a millionth, since it isn't like StC invented cliche.) I'm sure the Archie team swiped plot ideas from all sorts of sources, as did the writers of StC. Let's face it, none of these comics are exactly Alan Moore classics, and as they say, every story has already been told. Even so, despite their similarities, I feel the two series have pretty distinct voices, and would never mistake one for a copy of the other. I can definitely appreciate how StC has such loyal fans, though, especially amidst the recent furor over the new movie. Of the two series, StC hews a lot closer to the feel of the games, I think, and that seems to be something a lot of people see as a priority.
     
  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Also Charmy's Characterisation (and Amy's, come to think of it), and aliens with a vested interest in the Chaos Emeralds after having visited thousands of years ago?

    Almost tempted to start finding examples of Sonic the Comic doing things before him and throwing them at Ken to mess with him, actually... Think he'll be annoyed if I accuse him of stealing ideas from it?
     
  6. kitsunebi

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    Right, like I said, it's ALL bad cliched storytelling in the first place. Nothing to be proud of, and certainly nothing to be worth defending as "original". But that's almost everything Penders ever did in a nutshell, so he clearly judges his own efforts on a different scale from the rest of us.
     
  7. Pengi

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    It's because bees have queens.
     
  8. Overlord

    Overlord

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    To some degree, this was my point - ideas happening in parallel evolution, entirely separate to the Almighty Genius that is Ken Penders.
     
  9. kitsunebi

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    And there's the whole "Prince Charmy" sounds like "Prince Charming" thing.

    Exactly. Was there swiping/influence involved? Who knows. But none of these ideas are so interesting or original that they couldn't have easily been developed independently. And honestly, if I was a writer looking to swipe story ideas, I think I'd be be better served swiping from something GOOD, rather than old Sonic comics. (No offense, old Sonic comics. I love ya, but you ain't all that...)
     
  10. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I mean, to be fair Sonic games have been swiping worse ideas from worse adaptations for a while now :V

    Really tho, I remember fans calling the Metal Sonic army from Penders' last storyline a homage to STC's Brotherhood of Metallix back in the day. Was it ever confirmed, or was that just speculation? I assume the latter, as I doubt Penders was remotely familiar with STC.

    Although I suppose there is a slight chance it was inspired by it, as it was one of the most famous STC storylines, and Penders has admitted to taking inspiration from other Sonic adaptations on at least one, rare occasion (using Knuckles' hat from the OVA). I dunno, maybe he heard about that arc from Jonathan Gray and kept the idea on the back of his mind for when he needed filler or something? :V
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
  11. Snowbound

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    Penders may act annoyed but he wouldn’t really be. He just wants engagement of any kind. I’m all for documenting his shitty behavior but there’s no need to feed and interact with the troll.

    I don’t dispute that STC had ideas that clearly took inspiration from other things but I wouldn’t call many aspects of STC to be “bad cliched storytelling”. Especially since STC was much more transparent about when they took inspiration from other things; those mario bros parody characters coming to mind. I think that STC told some really great stories. At the very least I enjoy STC more then Penders’ work... tho I know that’s a pretty low bar. Now that doesn’t mean that STC OWNS these idea.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
  12. kitsunebi

    kitsunebi

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    I enjoy most Sonic comics (including much of StC) more than Penders' work. Not that I can completely write off his place in history. It's hard to say exactly who did what with the world-building of the pre-Super Genesis Wave era of Archie, since there were always multiple writers working at the same time, but I'm not going to deny that Penders most likely made significant contributions beyond just his little corner of echidna world. But I think most people agree that Ian Flynn has written more enjoyable comics in the post-Penders era.
     
  13. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I think STC is one of the better video game adaptations out there, Sonic or otherwise. Granted, many would say that's not saying a lot. And it wasn't perfect. But the writing and art were consistently good for the most part IMO (at least for the main stories), and it was one of the very few Sonic adaptations I could actually get into. None of the western cartoons did it for me, and neither did Archie, not even during Ian's run. Although he was admittedly an improvement over the previous Archie writers, and I haven't read his later stories. I'm told he improved over time.
     
  14. kitsunebi

    kitsunebi

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    I don't disagree - I think StC is the better and more faithful adaptation of the games. But overall I prefer the story Archie carved out for itself. Perhaps that's because I'm not really a fan of the games, so I'm not bothered by how much it differed.
     
  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    We might be heading off topic guys, not going to lie.

    Does anyone have that movie animatic Ken tried to sell to SEGA?
     
  16. xbloodywhalex

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    Is this what you're talking about?
     
  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    That's the one, never realised there was a powerpoint with it.
     
  18. Ch1pper

    Ch1pper

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    …That's a bad PowerPoint presentation and Ken should feel bad.
     
  19. xbloodywhalex

    xbloodywhalex

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall if it's ever been explicitly confirmed that the PowerPoint is real or Ken's work but... yeah. No, it's terrible.

    My favorite part has definitely gotta be fishnet top Tails model. Really highlights the, uh, diverse fanbase that the SONIC THE HEDGEHOG™ franchise has to offer. The stolen fanart is a nice touch, too.
     
  20. Ch1pper

    Ch1pper

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    I love "Recognized internationally" being paired with that AP photo on the fourth page.
    That's our Penders!™