don't click here

The Enigma That Is Knuckles' Chaotix's Development

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The Joebro64, Aug 22, 2022.

  1. BlueSkiesAM2

    BlueSkiesAM2

    Member
    495
    242
    43
    Denmark
    Do we have the Twitter of someone who would know? I can ask or someone could just post the following and tag the name(s).

    “「カオてィクス」の「ニュートロジックハイゾーン」は語源を説明いただけませんか?”

    And anyone who more regularly speaks Japanese and uses Twitter, please let me know if that would be the lamest, text-booky nerd way to ask the question ever lol.
     
  2. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    "Neutro" and "logic" sound like the most sensible combo, with it spelled as "New-" because cool factor. My main guess before was that it was 'tropic' with a p changed to a g as if to call similarity to the word "tragic". The "High" part I never understood, but I accept it meaning something uh.. trippy, considering the content within Chaotix itself. haha

    Regardless, 'Newtrogic High' and 'Chaotix' are both excellent, weird names. Very otherworldly.
     
  3. Nik Pi

    Nik Pi

    Member
    Hum... maybe you should look to translations into other languages? in the manuals, or in the origins museum..
    Well, for example, as I saw in the reviews on YT, for rus. language- Scrap brain was translated as "Puzzle" (although I think it would be better to translate as "Brainstorming")
     
  4. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    shaving is boring Wiki Sysop
    7,311
    1,294
    93
    Northumberland, UK
    hey wiki you're so fine
    [​IMG]
    High

    Crackers/Clackers -> -rogic / -logic

    New Logic High

    Brain, Logic, "Egghead". It's a "new" place... maybe high is "highway"? There's a road on the title screen.

    [​IMG]

    There's a few skyscrapers - "highrise"? It's a stretch to match anything up.
     
  5. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

    Oldbie
    649
    373
    63
    Huh.

    For 20 years my brain literally misread it as Neutronic High. "Newtrogic" is such a weird nonsenical word that my mind couldn't even accept that name as real.

    I didn't even notice this when I played the game just last week.
     
  6. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    I'd assume Newtrogic High ZONE, so High Zone would be just a higher ground. The real mystery is that "newtrogic" because the closest I could get to something that could be smart wordmixing is too complex to be right or really smart. I'd go with neutral as a base, as that's the place were you're not fighting or having any kind of risk besides the gambling of choosing characters and levels. "Tragic" could work too, as there's a tragedy in having all those characters trapped there, but I wouldn't bet too much on that. Maybe the typo was that vocal and it was meant to be newtragic, but dunno, sounds even worse.

    I'd need someone who knows (classic?) greek to go further. If I'm right, all the words coming to my mind or making any sense at all are greek. The "-gic" part may have more words that could link to it than I know. It could also depend on how do the japanese refer to the UFO catcher and the level roulette, and how does that translate into english. Of course, after "crackers" and "studium", more typos could be involved.

    I ran out of ideas, this one's hard to decipher.
     
  7. LockOnTommy11

    LockOnTommy11

    Member
    2,608
    132
    43
    UK
    Maybe it just sounded cool?

    Something like… Neutron, Cryogenic; two cool sounding scientific words that convey the feeling of something high tech and out of this world which they smashed together?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  8. Zigetch

    Zigetch

    Oh, I don't like this. Member
    Considering there's a few palm trees here and the general "resort" theme of the island, 'New Tropical Logic'? And, 'high' as in it's quite the achievement. Eggman is thoroughly full of himself, after all.

    Just my idea of it. Theorizing with Chaotix is fun!

    Edit: Didn't realize Azookara suggested the whole "tropical" thing first until after I'd posted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2022
  9. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    This definitely goes down in history with Sonic 2 Final Hidden Palace and Egg Reverie Pinch in Mania. I first listened to Tribute in the sound test, even before beating the game and I was horrified that it was cut short!

    I actually made an extended version and posted it up on my YouTube channel years ago called “A Tribute to Tribute” :V
     
  10. synchronizer

    synchronizer

    Member
    1,991
    24
    18
    "High," meaning high ground, could be an acropolis. That skyscraper bg sprite kind of reminds me of a modern Athens acropolis or something.
    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Or Atlantis? The island was a sunken island home to an ancient civilization, right?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
  11. foXcollr

    foXcollr

    Previously 'Hanging Waters' Member
    594
    508
    93
    US
    Newtrogic High is actually where Vector went to high school, but go off everybody.
     
  12. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

    Oldbie
    649
    373
    63
    This is super common in Japanese media, but the issue with those made up portmanteau words is that the Japanese Media will almost always explain them at some point and give an in universe reason why the name was used/made. Some in universe technobabble that's convoluted, but still makes the word seem less strange. For example...

    "New Neutron Logic" = "In the real world neutrons move in patterns which are too complex for science to fully understand, making them a naturally occurring illogical existence. Yet not so on this wacky Island! Here, Dr. Eggman can precisely map the movement of matter down to perfectly tracking NEW patterns of neutron movement itself, allowing him to master Chaos Energy and develop artificial dark Chaos rings which would normally destabilize and disintegrate in any other space, giving his machines immense new dangerous power! This makes the New Neutron Logic of this entire Zone Highly Predictable! A Newtrogic High!

    If Dr. Eggman perfects this phenomena and powers a fleet with it, he won't even need the Chaos Emeralds to rule the world! Hurry up, Heroes! Defeat Eggman's fiendish Newtrogic High Experiments before it's too late!"
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 6
    • Like Like x 3
    • List
  13. saxman

    saxman

    Oldbie Tech Member
    ... well that's impressive!
     
  14. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

    Oldbie
    649
    373
    63
    You can thank decades of studying anime, tokusatsu and JRPGs for teaching me the enlightening arts of Psuedo-Science.
     
  15. Forte

    Forte

    I speak better after three beers Member
    458
    170
    43
    Poland
    Huh...
    The buildings in this image really remind me of Sonic X Japanese opening. I wonder if there's any connection. Probably not, and my brain is just High on Newtrogic.
     
  16. muteKi

    muteKi

    Fuck it Member
    7,646
    37
    28
    The weirdest part of all of this is that to hear the most of the song, collect exactly 5 of the chaos rings. You'll see a weird cutscene similar to the end-of-game emerald juggling where Eggman laughs as the chaos rings you've collected disintegrate (IMO it should have been for the ones you didn't collect but this is me getting into nitpick mode)
     
  17. Lostgame

    Lostgame

    producer/turnablist. homebrew dev. cosplayer. Oldbie
    4,130
    54
    28
    Toronto, ON
    The O.I.C.
    Oh, wow; well, doesn't this take me back easily 15-18 years...this really takes me back, guys...

    Well, back in the day, I got extraordinarily obsessed with the Sonic Crackers prototype for a bit...I was able to create and customize my own levels, to a certain extent - I added a couple *new* levels, and was even able to decompress and add my own art, so I actually was able to create a custom title screen. (I may - may still have a copy of that kicking around somewhere. I'll have to look around. If I find it, I'll obviously post it.)

    I eventually moved on to trying to crack the Chaotix nut, so to speak, and that led me to connecting with someone who I have no idea is still on this forum, a dude who went by the name of JJFTails, and if anyone would know shit about the interior workings of Chaotix, it would've been / would be him.

    I saw a couple posts in this thread asking why there hasn't been a 'Sonic in Chaotix' hack.

    Well - JJFTails actually did create that - and it's still online... I highly recommend you check it out if you haven't seen it.

    He also released some hacking utilities back in the day, actually I remember we both worked on various Chaotix-related stuff, I was more into figuring out how to customize the levels, etc - he was really into the art side.

    I don't remember a lot of that stuff from back then - but my post history here should actually have quite a bit of information from around that time. (2004-2006)

    Really cool to see my what may be my favourite Sonic game getting some attention.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  18. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

    Oldbie
    649
    373
    63
    I grabbed the rom for that recently, and found it's possibly the only Chaotix hack on the web at all, which is surprising give just how much this community has done to literally every other Genesis title by now.

    Not even a simple Chaotix no-combi hack yet, or a working Tails hack.

    I feel like with the work that's been put into S1-K+CD by this point, at least some sort of new efforts to hack Chaotix need to be revived.

    Make a new better ending?

    Super Chaos Ring Forms? (CD Just got Miracle Sonic and it's very cool...)

    Tweak Stage and Enemy placements?

    A Non-Randomized Level order hack?

    I don't expect a fan made retro engine RDSKv5 port as that would be far too complex...

    But there's gotta be something worth doing.
     
  19. Lostgame

    Lostgame

    producer/turnablist. homebrew dev. cosplayer. Oldbie
    4,130
    54
    28
    Toronto, ON
    The O.I.C.
    Here’s the thing - we don’t - AFAIK - even have a proper disassembly for Chaotix; and even the build tool chain for that might be finicky to arrange.

    These are pipe dreams until somebody does the research.

    What I can possibly provide is known hex locations of art and level layouts - a disassembly is honestly an effort I’d love to put in that I just don’t have the time for here at 32…

    There is a port of Sonic 1 to the 32X somewhere, I think drx did it, but I could obviously be wrong.

    Using whatever compiler / tool chain he used for that would potentially be the first step to at least getting it decompiled and recompiled.

    Anyone here know much about SH2 assembly? I only know the smallest bit, and again - I don’t have a lot of time these days.
     
  20. JaxTH

    JaxTH

    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    9,859
    374
    63
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    That does sound right.