The Current Sonic timeline

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Master Emerald, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. The Game Gear games do make it trickier, so I typically exclude them from my theory-crafting. Chaos Rush certainly had a nice breakdown though, influencing me to hypothesize some more.

    So here goes:
    1. SegaSonic the Hedgehog - While it could probably be placed just about anywhere prior to Chaotix, it just feels right being first. The Sonic 1 JP manual states that Eggman has been foiled by Sonic before, which indicates some entry comes before it. Not really sure what plan they foiled here, but Eggman's base of operations was certainly disrupted.
    2. Sonic the Hedgehog - Noted in the manual to not be Eggman's first encounter with Sonic.
    3. Sonic the Hedgehog (GG) - Ideally this would fit within the Genesis version.
    I've come up with a possible sequence there if anyone is interested.
    4. Sonic CD - Could be placed prior to Sonic 1, as I discount mechanics having bearing on the order. Lack of Tails is mainly why I place it before 2. It also has to be placed after Eggman had encountered Sonic at least once, due to Metal Sonic.

    5. Tail's Adventures - The JP manual states that it is a prelude to Sonic 2. Could mean it could take place before/after/during the already listed.
    6. Sonic 2 - The JP manual indicates that this is when Sonic meets Tails.
    7. Sonic 2 (GG) - Eggman already had a hard enough time dealing with Sonic alone, so he kidnaps his buddy.
    8. Sonic Chaos - Obviously has to follow Sonic 2. Lack of Knuckles is my main reasoning for having it here, but that doesn't necessarily have to factor in.
    9. Sonic 3 & Knuckles - Sonic and Tails' story first, followed by Knuckles'. Had a thought that Triple Trouble could be sandwiched in there, since it appears to be on Angel Island.
    10. Sonic Triple Trouble - This one is tricky, as it doesn't make much sense to me that Knuckles' would be tricked by Eggman immediately after taking down the Eggrobos... So it could take place after some or all of Sonic's story in 3K, or Knuckles is insanely gullible.

    11. Sonic 3D Blast - Another tricky one, as it doesn't reference the events of past games aside from simply having Tails and Knuckles being nonsensical gateways to special zones. Their appearances are irrelevant to the plot, so this entry could take place anywhere. Maybe even before SegaSonic!
    12. Chaotix - Has to follow S3K. Right?
    13. Sonic Mania - Revisits past zones. Encore mode follows this if it is really canon.
    14. Sonic 4 - Would prefer to not include this, but oh well. It claims to take place shortly after 3K, so it could possible be before Chaotix and Mania.
    15. Sonic the Fighters - Could easily not be included, but I enjoy the theory that it can serve as a conclusion to Sonic 4.
    16. Sonic Adventure - In my humble opinion this concludes the classic line, although it could also be viewed as a reboot.

    Release order seems good enough for the Modern line, simply omitting the storybooks and non-pivotal side-games like Shuffle or Chronicles. I'd probably place the first Advance after Adventure, then the sequels after Adventure 2.

    I also omitted Sonic Blast because I remember nothing about its story or if it even had one.
     
  2. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    I don't wanna pop any Game Gear theorists creative bubbles, but taking the JP manuals into account, they follow a very seperate continuity from the Mega Drive games.

    Just some points/food for thought:
    -Sonic 1 GG to Sonic Blast/G Sonic all take place on South Island.
    -Tails, Knuckles and the Emeralds all seem very much native to South Island in the GG games.
    -Sonic Triple Trouble's JP Manual has Sonic and Knuckles meeting for the first time. Completely ignoring Sonic 3 & Knuckles (Angel Island is definitely not a thing in this continuity)
    -Sonic Blast's manual seems to just imply Knuckles hangs around on South Island as well. Again, no mention of Angel Island or why he'd on South Island.
    Feel free to challenge these points though, but it is worth reading through those Game Gear JP manuals again, there's a lot that clashes with the main story.

    Also just a general one for the thread, it's strongly implied in the JP Manuals that nothing happened between Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
    Sonic and Tails had not seen Eggman at all since they brought down the Death Egg in Sonic 2, and the next time they see him is on Angel Island. This is written in the S3 manual. So for everyone's who's trying to fit other games in between these two... Yeah, don't do that.

    Throw me into fanfic hell if I've got any of this wrong tho.
    Or just ignore me and say "get stuffed, you whining green git". I ain't the timeline police :V
     
  3. Easy enough to keep the order and just axe the Game Gear titles, although it was more fun trying to squeeze them in.

    1. SegaSonic
    2. Sonic 1
    3. Sonic CD - Could still easily be before 1, game mechanics be darn'd.

    4. Sonic 2
    5. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
    6. Sonic 3D Blast - Upon further inspection the JP manual does say Sonic goes there with Knuckles and Tails. Oh well.

    7. Chaotix
    8. Sonic Mania
    9. Sonic 4
    10. StF
    11. Sonic Adventure
     
  4. Xilla

    Xilla

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    Always seen Pocket Adventure as a direct sequel to the GG games personally. There s some similarities especially surrounding Knuckles and the Emeralds.

    Could even have the Advance games as direct sequels.
     
  5. Chaos Rush

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    This is all in good fun, no need to take everything so seriously. The order I wrote intentionally ignored stuff the manuals said and wasn’t trying to be canon - just a sensible way to play the original Sonic series in an order that makes sense from a gameplay development perspective (but maybe not so much from a story perspective - even though I wrote my own “story” to fit them in anyways lol) None of this is meant to be serious and I in particular don’t pay much attention to the canon anyway since I haven’t played a “modern” game since Generations, and from what I’ve seen of the games that have come since, it’s not worth taking that seriously since SEGA themselves don’t. I think it’s better to look at it like how Mario approaches it - there kinda is a timeline and it’s basically release order (give or take) but overall it’s not all that important. Personally with the older games I think the only things that are 100% canon are what is depicted on screen, especially because the manuals take it upon themselves to alter the story to suit the audience of the country the game is being released in.

    As I said, I care more about playing things from a development perspective rather than a story perspective, hence why I play Zelda games typically in release order rather than timeline order, etc.

    The order I came up with was based on how I would play the DKC series or the Mega Man series, for instance DKC would be:

    1. Donkey Kong Country
    2. Donkey Kong Land
    3. Donkey Kong Country 2
    4. Donkey Kong Land 2
    5. Donkey Kong Country 3
    6. Donkey Kong Land 3
    6.5. Donkey Kong 64
    7. Donkey Kong Country Returns
    8. Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze

    Mega Man
    1. Mega Man
    2. Mega Man World
    3. Mega Man 2
    4. Mega Man World 2
    5. Mega Man 3
    6. Mega Man World 3
    ...and so on

    Likewise the order I came up with for classic Sonic to fit the 16-bit and 8-bit platformers together in a way where you alternate between 16-bit and 8-bit would be:

    1. Sonic 1 MD
    2. Sonic 1 GG
    3. Sonic CD
    4. Sonic 2 GG
    5. Sonic 2 MD
    6. Sonic Chaos
    7. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
    8. Sonic Triple Trouble
    9. Knuckles Chaotix
    10. Sonic Mania

    This story order won’t make sense if you follow the “canon”, I just made my own interpretation of it to fit this order that prioritizes gameplay development over story. It’s all in good fun.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  6. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    But doesn't sonic mania just straight out happen in another dimension? So placing it before sonic 4/ adventure doesn't make sense since the timeline is split in two now. Also, does knuckles know mighty in mania?
     
  7. Classic Sonic's appearance in Forces is due to him being pulled into another dimension. Pretty sure Mania is just the standard Classic dimension with Phantom Ruby time shenanigans. The manual for Plus indicates that after Forces, Sonic is dumped back into his proper dimension. As for the split itself, I have no idea where it would be placed. It could probably happen at pretty much any point after 3K.

    The manual for Plus states that Mighty and Ray are old pals of Sonic, but doesn't mention their relation to Knuckles or Tails. I'd assume that Mighty knows Knuckles though, given the appearance of the Red Metal Sonic from Chaotix.
     
  8. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    The split happens due to generation's events, which people commonly place between sonic 2 and 3K. As for what happens afterwards is up to guessing now if they release new games. The game I'm not sure when it happens is chaotix, which could happen before or after mania in the new timelime, i just know it happens after S3K in the past modern universe.
     
  9. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    Do they? I've never really seen that stated - personally I'd always assumed it took place after Sonic 3 & Knuckles, hence the inclusion of Classic Sonic learning the Jump Dash in the ending. Obviously that particular detail has since been retconned by Mania/Forces retroactively using Generations as an excuse for a timeline split; however, the intention of its inclusion within Generations itself seems to have been to imply that Sonic Adventure is in the relatively near future for Classic Sonic by the game's end (or Sonic 4 if you're inclined to count it, I guess - Generations seems to implicitly, as the pre-final boss cutscene remixes its theme tune).
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  10. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    WHAT IS THIS FUN WORD YOU SPEAK OF? NEVER HEARD OF IT :colbert:

    Nah you good, and totally right. If you're just having fun with it then totally ignore my post. Mine was aimed more at what I assumed were people trying to work out the canon timeline, but I might have just misunderstood the thread. If you're getting creative, then completely ignore my No-Fun-Allowed sirens. :V

    Yeah, I definitely feel that Classic Sonic in Generations is a post S3K one.
    The way I see is like this.
    Sonic 4 and Mania are just two different potential sequels to Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

    One path (S3K > S4) was just the original course of events that Sonic (aka Modern Sonic) did that we knew up until 2010.

    But since the Time Eater messed with things in the past, young/Classic Sonic split off into his own timeline (aka Another Dimension), where Mania happens instead of Sonic 4.
    In this dimension, i don't believe Classic Sonic will go on to Adventure. Instead (providing Sega continue using him), he'll get other brand new stories. post Mania Plus, instead.

    Kinda like this.
    https://imgur.com/a/4es7RAc

    That way, both Generations and Forces are correct in classifying Classic Sonic as both from the past (at the time of Generations) and another dimension (at the time of Forces).
    THAT'S MY SPICY TAKE ON IT ANYWAY and I've probably explained that awfully...
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  11. Multi Battler

    Multi Battler

    puniboy 4 president Member
    Hard to tell when you have multiple gems that have the power to rewrite an entire timeline. If not otherwise stated: chronological order of release > split timeline. What we need is a Sonic autobiography. That would be funny. Ian Flynn should write one and add it as a bonus to the next mainline game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  12. This is my "Handheld" timeline, an alternate version on the Modern timeline that plays out a bit differently, it will strongly prefer what happens in the handheld games, but the console games will be included when necessary, I'm just starting with the Classic section of the timeline.

    1. Sonic 1 (GG/MS) - Self Explanatory, A counterpart to the 16-bit version that takes place in the Modern timeline
    2. Tails Adventure - I'm just gonna trigger some of you by preferring the Japan manuals, this happens before Tails meets Sonic.
    (Tails Meets Sonic Here)
    3. Sonic 2 (GG/MS) - Simple enough for Placement, theres probably been a small break in the middle of Tails Adventure and this game for Sonic and Tails to meet and become friends
    4. Sonic CD - This game introduces Amy, which appears later on, and the finalized version of Metal Sonic, placing it after Sonic 2, the Spin Dash and Super Peel-Out are also introduced.
    5. Sonic Chaos / Sonic & Tails - This game could also take place before CD, but the placement doesn't really matter, I picked CD first as it was released first
    6. Sonic Drift - Nothing of importance except it happens post CD as Amy is a character
    7. Sonic Triple Trouble / Sonic & Tails 2 - This game introduces Knuckles and Fang into the timeline
    8. Sonic Labyrinth AND Tails Sky Patrol - These two games happen at the same time, nothing important to note.
    9. Sonic Drift 2 / Sonic Drift Racing - This game must happen after Triple Trouble, as Knuckles and Fang are characters
    10. Sonic Blast / G Sonic - Nothing to note about this game, except it must be after Triple Trouble because of Knuckles

    That's the Classic side of the Handheld timeline, you can correct me on anything if I'm wrong, and I'll be back soon with the Modern order. I haven't looked beyond the classic games so far, and ill be sure to fix any mistakes i find.

    (PS if you're gonna ask about Generations and the how there would be a "Handheld Classic Timeline", let's just say that nothing significant was changed by the Time Eater and the games play out the same)

    Edit: Spinball and Mean Bean Machine are based on SatAM and Adventures, so they don't count
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  13. Roller

    Roller

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    SRB2Kart, LEGO Ideas Sonic Mania
    No, no, listen. The Game Gear games are prequels to a timeline that culminates in Sonic 06, because all of those games consistently have six emeralds accessible outside of an Elise-anchored timeloop. When the timeloop is punctured and the timeline is soft-reset, the Genesis titles result :V
     
  14. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Ah yes, that little tidbit I added in.

    Which reminds me, I need to reassemble the complete timeline...
     
  15. Oh god, that makes so much sense, I'm serious, I'm gonna make a fricking full timeline of the games based on as many of our timelines as possible

    Grey means that this game "loosely" happened due to certain elements that contradict other stuff
    This timeline will be based on the release date, except when necessary

    Timeline #1: Game Gear:
    This is the first Timeline is a prequel to all the other games, which ultimately ends in Sonic 06, we know that this is the case as, in the Game Gear titles, there's no 7th emerald, the 7th emerald is kept by Elise as a lucky charm and got it before every other Sonic game, most people considered this a plothole. The truth is that Sonic never had access to the 7th emerald in the Game Gear games is because Elise had it, and after the ending of Sonic 06, where it all got erased, a new timeline starts.

    1. Sonic 1 (8-bit) - The game where it all began for this timeline. I'm putting this before Tails Adventure as this was released first.
    2. Tails Adventure - This game takes place before Tails meets Sonic, as shown by the Japanese manual, it can be placed at the same time or before Sonic 1, as it doesn't matter.
    3. Sonic 2 (8-bit) - This takes place before Sonic CD as this game has a different version of Metal Sonic that is never seen again.
    4. Sonic CD - This game introduces Amy, Metal Sonic, the spin dash, and the super peel-out, there is no chaos emeralds, only time stones, so it can still fit in the timeline.
    5. Sonic Chaos - There is nothing of importance about this game except that its interchangeable with CD on the timeline as it has the super peel-out and spin dash aswell.
    6. Sonic Drift - This game happens post CD as it has Amy as a character.
    7. Sonic Triple Trouble - This game introduces Knuckles and Fang, who appear later on.
    8. Tails Skypatrol - This game runs at the same time as Sonic Labyrinth, as told by the Japanese manuals.
    9. Sonic Labyrinth - I'm putting Skypatrol first as it was released first.
    10. Sonic Drift 2 - This must happen post Triple Trouble as it has Knuckles and Fang.
    11. Sonic Blast - This happens post Triple Trouble as it has Knuckles, going by release order.
    12. Sonic Pocket Adventure - This game establishes the "modern" designs required for the next few games for 06 to work
    12. Sonic Adventure - These 4 games only loosely happen as theres no 7th Chaos Emerald
    13. Sonic Adventure 2
    14. Sonic Heroes
    - The Advance series and Chaotix doesn't need to happen as this can just as well be the first game Cream and the Chaotix are in
    15. Shadow the Hedgehog
    16. Sonic 06 - The end of the timeline

    Timeline #2: Modern:
    This is the "Main" Timeline where most of the games happen, the 7th emerald is around and Sonic 06 LITERALLY never happens, this puts A LOT less strain on trying to piece together the timeline. The "classic" games only loosely happen because of inconsistencies between the Classic and Modern continuities

    1. Sonic 1 - The first game, nothing interesting about this
    2. SegaSonic - Introduces Mighty and Ray, can take place before, but it doesn't matter.
    3. Sonic CD - Introduces Metal Sonic and Amy, same case as SegaSonic. Pre sonic 2 as theres no Tails
    4. Sonic 2 - Introduces Tails.
    5. Sonic 3&K - Introduces Knuckles.
    6. Chaotix - Introduces the Chaotix, either order can work, going by release order.
    7. Sonic 3D Blast
    8. Sonic R

    9. Sonic Pocket Adventure - The transistion to the modern designs
    10. Sonic 4 - A year's worth of adventure in between CD and this for Little Planet to come back.
    11. Sonic Adventure
    12. Sonic Shuffle
    13. Sonic Adventure 2 - Introduces Shadow, He "dies" at the end.
    14. Sonic Advance
    15. Sonic Advance 2 - Introduces Cream.
    16. Sonic Pinball Party
    17. Sonic Heroes - Shadow returns.
    18. Shadow the Hedgehog - Shadow regains his memories.
    19. Sonic Battle - Shadow has his memories back.
    20. Sonic Advance 3
    21. Sonic Rush - Introduces Blaze.
    22. Sonic Riders
    23. Sonic Rivals - The replacement for Sonic 06 on the new timeline, introduces Silver, let's just say that theres 2 Eggman Negas, one in the future, and one in Blaze's dimension.
    24. Sonic and the Secret Rings
    25. Sonic Rush Adventure
    26. Sonic Rivals 2
    27. Sonic Riders Zero Gravity
    28. Sonic Unleashed
    29. Sonic and the Black Knight
    30. Sonic Free Riders
    31. Sonic Colors - Combination of both the Wii and DS versions due to both being referenced in later games
    32. Sonic Generations (Modern) - 3DS Version as Sonic 06 never happened
    33. Sonic Lost World
    34. Sonic Runners
    35. Sonic Runners Adventure
    36. Sonic Forces (Modern)
    37. Team Sonic Racing - The most recent game as of now, onto timeline 3

    Timeline 3: Classic:
    The events of Generations created a new timeline where Sonic never changes from his Classic design to his Modern design, the timeline stays the same up to Sonic 2. We are able to modify the chaos emerald lore for this timeline and just say that the chaos emeralds are like the modern games.

    1. Sonic 1
    2. SegaSonic
    3. Sonic CD
    4. Sonic 2
    6. Sonic Generations (Classic) - This event can happen either in between 2 and 3, or 3 and mania, I chose the former as theres no reference to Classic Knuckles and to provide some more space between Generations and Forces.
    5. Sonic 3&K
    7. Sonic Mania
    8. Sonic Forces (Classic)
    9. Sonic Mania Plus (Encore Mode) - Sonic Mania Adventures can also happen but I chose the game
    10. Chaotix
    11. Sonic 3D Blast
    12. Sonic R
    13. Sonic the Fighters - This happens instead of Sonic Pocket Adventure and Sonic 4 and the characters don't turn modern, to be continued in more classic games

    Retcons:
    1. The "Dreamcast" era main games in the Game Gear timeline have to happen for Shadow to be around in 06, but there was no usable 7th chaos emerald at this time, so place a deus ex machina here.
    2. There's a lot of inconsistencies between the classic and modern canons so in the modern timeline, the classic games only loosely happen.
    3. There is 2 Eggman NEGAs, one from the Sol Dimension, and one from the future.
    4. In the classic timeline, we should just ignore any contradicting infomation about the Chaos Emeralds and how they are "only found in" every island on Eart- Mobi- Planet No Name.

    Hope you like my timeline!

    EDIT 1. Added Pocket Adventure, Made the classic games in the modern timeline loosely happen, and fixed the chaos emerald lore in the classic timeline, added a retcons section
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  16. Pengi

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    Something worth considering - it seems like the idea of there only being 7 Chaos Emeralds was a big retcon that came in with Sonic Adventure.

    Whenever Iizuka is asked about the absence of the Super Emeralds, he says that he wanted to clean up the number of emeralds with Sonic Adventure. His answer might be broader than the Super Emeralds specifically, if you look at how the Chaos Emeralds were described in the games prior to Adventure.

    Sonic 1:

    Sonic 2:

    Sonic 3:

    Sonic & Knuckles:

    Tails Adventures:

    Sonic 3D:

    In each of these instances, the Chaos Emeralds are said to have been hidden on each island (South, West Side, Floating, Cocoa, Flicky) since ancient times. The big one is Sonic 3, where Knuckles has been guarding the 7 Chaos Emeralds of the Floating Island for a long time, until they suddenly disappear. Then Eggman tricks Knuckles into thinking Sonic is after his emeralds, and Knuckles finds Sonic with the 7 Chaos Emeralds from Sonic 2.

    Even the Master Emerald is described as a big Chaos Emerald. Then there's Sonic the Fighters with its 8 Chaos Emeralds and Sonic Spinball with a whopping 16 Chaos Emeralds.

    I don't think it's ever been officially stated where Sonic & Tails 2 (Sonic Triple Trouble) takes place. South Island is a reasonable assumption though. Page 23 of the manual seems to use the phrase minami no shima (南の島) to describe Great Turquoise Zone, so that's something at least. There's probably some other interesting untranslated stuff in all of these manuals.
     
  17. The(?) Chaos Emeralds also appeared in Gameworld. I don't mean to harp on it; it's a inconsequential game meant for tykes, but the wiki should have a proper translation of it, even if it's super basic.

    At the very least, it'll be good to know who actually built Gameworld. I've seen it implied tue Eggman did, but clarification would be ideal.
     
  18. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    I actually didn’t have in mind a third main timeline actually... It’s genius.
    Now if I would add something is pocket adventure right before sonic 4 in the modern timeline.
    To me is a transition to the modern designs since we see eggman in his classic outfit until the end of the game basically.

    Also I want to thank you because I forgot to back up the why classic’s version of generations most likely happened in between 2 and 3K and you addressed it.

    And I’m really enjoying this discussion since I usually don’t find people that have a good amount of knowledge on this topic. Plus we can share our thoughts on this. Now let’s keep this going!
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  19. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    I feel like Sonic & Knuckles already kinda retcons the Knuckles backstory in Sonic 3 by replacing the idea of the Island's Chaos Emeralds with simply the Master Emerald.

    If you think of the Super Emeralds as just "The Chaos Emeralds got a power boost when they came back to Angel Island" and consider the Super/Chaos Emeralds one and the same, I feel like that doesn't rock the boat. It means S3&K still makes sense, and keeps the idea that there's only ever been seven.

    I can handwave these two in a flash.

    Fighters - Either pretend there's still 7 (8 just because GAMEPLAY) or Tails' Emerald is a Fake. Sadly Eggman didn't trick him into telling anyone that game.
    Spinball - Simply just Power Emerald-shaped magguffins that Eggman made as batteries for his fortess, completely seperate from the Chaos Emeralds. or we just Ignore Spinball in the canon entirely.

    Thank you for reading my fan-fiction. :V

    I'd consider the bonus room cameos as easter-eggs anyway. Considering we also see Scratch from AoStH as well. I don't think Spinball is trying to based in the SatAM world or anything. Generations having Toxic Caves as an unlockable track makes me think it's still very loosely considered to be part of the game series.
     
  20. I could get behind Generations taking place between 2 and 3K. Sonic & Tails were displaced in time and then dropped back right when/where they were, so it doesn't disrupt the events of 3K happening directly after 2. From Eggman's perspective no extra time would have passed.

    It could help streamline the split. For example:
    Classic:
    4. Sonic 2
    5. Generations
    6. Sonic 3K
    7. 3D Blast
    8. Chaotix
    9. Sonic Mania
    10. Sonic Forces - more time displacement shenanigans
    11. Sonic Mania Plus - a redo to nullify Forces
    X. Sonic Adventure - potentially.

    Modern:
    3. Sonic 2 - Mighty and Ray were stated to be Classic-only, correct? So SegaSonic somehow didn't happen here.
    4. Generations
    5. Sonic 3K
    6. 3D Blast - Maybe?
    7. Sonic 4
    8. StF
    9. Sonic Adventure and so on.