That new prototype footage of Sonic 1 going around...

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MrMechanic, May 10, 2020.

  1. Overlord

    Overlord

    Aros gartref, diogelu'r GIG, achub bywydau Moderator
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    The MUCH shorter drowning time would also go a long way to explaining why Labyrinth has so many air bubble generators in close proximity to each other, some only a screen or so apart.
     
  2. Hopefully that ROM creeps out eventually, it'd be very cool to play, not just see, the game while it was a work-in-progress.
     
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  3. Why the snare drums sounds so similar to Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master's one?
     
  4. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    Like with all Sonic 1 & 2 tunes, we also have Masa's demo of the boss music, which isn't faster either - so I agree, it's probably a bug.
     
  5. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    This is something else we ought to be writing down, especially the Japanese ones because they had specific release days.

    Unlike the US and UK where until 2000/2001, you'd usually get something horrendously vague like "should be coming out this month, maybe next".

    Though technically in this case the game isn't "delayed" because a lot of them aren't given firm release dates until the week of launch.
     
  6. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    I was able to see a bit more:

    [​IMG]

    If you pay attention to the screen edges when the screen is rotating you'll see the edge of the next block. So that's how I got the extra ones.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  7. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester

    ♡ ! Resident Jester
    Are you sure?

    At 6:55 a block on the top left disappears randomly, the engine isn't rendering it because it thinks it's technically off-screen, even though it isn't. Same again at 6:58 where a block just "appears" in.

    It's possible that those blocks are not actually blank, they may be just barely off-screen for the engine to not render the block that's meant to be there. I agree with majority of the blanks though, it's just the ones around the gold block I'm not so sure on =(
     
  8. Diablohead

    Diablohead

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    the extra bubbles worked out well because you get that feeling of "can I make the next one?" when playing, so i'm glad they didn't fully revise the layouts.
     
  9. Clownacy

    Clownacy

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    Sonic 1's drums are also used in Golden Axe II. In fact, they share the same sound engine - the one we know as 'SMPS 68k Type 1b' (though, Golden Axe II might use Type 1a - I'm not sure). Sega just liked reusing stuff, I guess.

    I suppose, while I'm here, I should reiterate why all this prototype footage has lower-pitched drums: as I already said, the sound engine isn't specific to Sonic 1 - it's used by a whole range of Mega Drive/Genesis games, and even some Game Gear, Master System, Mega CD, 32X, Sega Pico, and arcade games.

    Sonic 1 features a heavily-modified version of this sound engine, whereas Golden Axe II presumably does not - this is why its drums match Sonic 1's prototypes, which date back to before Sonic Team made the modification that changed their pitch.

    What was this change? Well, it was the addition of the 'Say-gaa' chant: to implement it, the part of the engine that handled sample playback was rewritten, and, in the process, they made it faster. By making the code faster, they made the sample playback faster too. Either the devs forgot to adjust each sample's delay value to make them play at their original speed with the newer code, or they figured they just liked the drums better this way.

    What's interesting is that this footage, despite showing a very late version of the game, shows that the modification (and thus the addition of the 'Say-gaa' chant) had not been made yet. This supports an old bit of info I heard a while ago that I can't find a source for, which claims that the chant was indeed a last-minute addition to the game, and intended to fill up the unused space on the cartridge that was meant for planned features which ultimately didn't get implemented (I believe what I read was that this cartridge space was originally meant for a fancy sound test menu involving Sonic and his band, but this is all just hearsay so don't quote me on it. Remember to cite your sources, kids!).
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  10. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    http://xbox.gamespy.com/articles/654/654750p5.html
     
  11. Ravenfreak

    Ravenfreak

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    Has anyone noticed that the countdown numbers look different? It looks like it's using a different palette than in the final game. This is an awesome find too btw! Great to see more Sonic 1 prototype footage and even Bare Knuckle footage too! :)
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    You're right so I've updated the map.

    I also saw that the starting rings are supposed to make a square:
    [​IMG]

    And we have scans from an earlier build! It seems to be a similar layout but all blocks are yellow and there are no other objects:
    [​IMG]

    Here's the updated map:

    [​IMG]


    Edit you even got the orientation right! Here Sonic seems near to his starting position:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  13. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester

    ♡ ! Resident Jester
    Amazing work Master Emerald! I didn't even think to look at the older shots myself, well done! =3

    So the three missing rings were likely collected a few seconds before the footage started, interesting, and we can likely/safely say the starting position is that goal area?
     
  14. Pengi

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    While we're on this subject, is there anyone in the community who is able to digitize VHS tapes? I know of at least one affordably priced volume for sale.
     
  15. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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  16. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

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    Considering it's blue, not red like the other one it could mean something. We can't say for sure. That's why I didn't place a 'sonic' object. It could be just a screen that happened to be taken when the blocks were aligned and the player randomly didn't collect rings.

    Redoing your 'experiment' with the earlier build:

    [​IMG]

    So, without the goal blocks near the start to prevent the player from escaping the map... this happens, just like the final game:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  17. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    I can, but I don't think I should be your first choice since I'm located in Italy. Feel free to let me know if anything of interest ever pops up near Milan, though.
     
  18. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Wow, there's some cool finds here.

    Regarding VHS digitizing, for those who don't know, there's a definitive way in the works which will require a VHS player and a Domesday Duplicator (yes, that same thing which digitizes LaserDiscs).
     
  19. MrMechanic

    MrMechanic

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    I have a VHS player (UK one so no worries about PAL signals on NTSC systems (NTSC works on PAL no problem)).

    I don't a converter at the moment. Though if they're quite cheap I could give converting the tapes a go if anyone does wish to mail them over.
     
  20. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member

    I know I said it could be a coincidence but, actually, with some extra testing we can definitely say it is the starting area.

    Starting frame:
    [​IMG]

    Just some frames later:
    [​IMG]

    What happened:

    ✔️ Sonic dropped 1px

    ✔️ Rings didn't change frames yet

    ✔️ Sonic didn't chage frames yet

    ✔️ BG is at the checkerboard frame


    This is compatible with the magazine scan:

    [​IMG]



    So, according to my calculations Sonic's at this position:

    [​IMG]

    So if, at this frame, he already dropped 1px... the starting point should be here:

    [​IMG]
     
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