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Tangentially related Sega stories

Discussion in 'General Sega Discussion' started by Black Squirrel, Oct 2, 2022.

  1. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    I've also heard this was a thing - I think it's specific to the Super Deluxe versions of the game (i.e. the ones with moving seats), and for whatever reason it was tricky to emulate (although maybe because it secretly wasn't real??)

    I went through a phase of hunting out arcade game cheat codes - I'm sure there was one that only be triggered once the machine had clocked up x hours of play, meaning realistically you'd never be see it unless it had been running in a real world venue for a few weeks or months.
     
  2. Black Squirrel

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    The tangled webs we weave.

    We had a slightly wrong redirect - "Mattel" was pointing to Mattel Interactive, the company's short-lived stint with video games. But of course, "regular" Mattel as an entity is relevant to Sega's history too, as its toys and games have turned up in Sega products, so check it out: Mattel no longer redirects.

    But there's another part of this story - an earlier short-lived video game-related subsidiary that put out this thing:

    [​IMG]

    The Intellivision, by "Mattel Electronics". That's what Wikipedia says, and when are they ever wrong? Mattel Electronics" is in the logo printed on the console and its accompanying box, printed material and various catalogues and advertising - what's the problem?

    "Mattel, Inc." has existed as a toy company since 1945, and at some point in the late 1970s (77? 78?) they started producing electronic handhelds:

    [​IMG]

    These were marketed under the "Mattel Electronics" brand (or at least later ones were), because that's what it was - a brand, like Barbie and Hot Wheels. If there were "electronics" involved, the product was marketed as Mattel Electronics (though given there was a product division associated with these things, I guess one could argue it was an "entity"), but the creator, manufacturer and name they put in the advertisments was still plain old "Mattel".

    In 1979 Mattel released the Intellvision under this branding (kinda), and it became a cash cow for a bit. Thing is, while all (US) Intellivisions have MATTEL ELECTRONICS printed on the units themselves, Intellivision became its own brand, and the Mattel name was seemingly downplayed so they could sell the system up-market. But it was always Mattel, Inc. in the small print, and that seems to have been the case until 1981.

    Judging from what I've read, the Intellivision was so successful that Mattel spun off its electronics division as a separate company, and this is where "Mattel Electronics, Inc." comes into play. This is the entity subsequently collapsed after the North American video game crash, and threatened the Mattel empire with near bankruptcy. It became the INTV Corporation in 1984, died in 1990, and the rights have bounced around ever since.


    So by my reckoning, the Intellivision was released by Mattel in 1979, and then became a product of a newly created Mattel Electronics in 1981. So if anyone says "the console was made by Mattel Electronics in 1979", you can point out that at the time, "Electronics" was just a brand and didn't strictly "make" anything, and everybody on the internet is wrong.

    Though Wikipedia already kinda knew this because it contradicts itself:

    Yes this is absolutely top-tier pedantry. Welcome to the internet.

    oh uh, top top top-tier pedantry:

    The console (as in, the box you insert games into which makes them work) is technically known as the "Master Component". "Intellivision" refers to the system as a whole, i.e. the console, controllers, leads and games working together as one singular Intellivision platform. Back when systems were actually... systems.

    You may remember this noise from later consoles: the NES "Control Deck" and the Sega "Power Base" - the "console" is part of the "system", it is not the system. But don't worry about it.
     
  3. Black Squirrel

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    This was annoying me:

    This is how dedicated I am to the cause: I "completed" this game this afternoon to see if there was a credits sequence. There isn't. And yes there is a story mode, and it ends in baking a pie.


    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Turns out this game was effectively re-released just a couple months later as the pie-less Get!! Colonies. Both were sold at a budget price, but they're a bit miserable for Dreamcast games (we're talking a similar level to Windows Minesweeper or Solitaire), so to release it twice strikes me as a huge waste of resources. At least without online play.


    The origins of this are a bit weird though. According to Sega, the concept comes from a company known as "Midnight Synergy". They still exist and seem to want to sell you tat. Colony is still listed on the website - judging from screenshots it seems to have considerably more stuff in it than these Dreamcast releases, but it's the same basic idea. It was released (presumably earlier) in 1999, the product of what looks like two Dutch brothers, one doing code, the other graphics.

    Thing is, I'm not sure Midnight Synergy really ought to get credit for this idea. I mean first of all, the 1999 game is a pseudo-remake of a 1991 Atari ST release the brothers put out:

    [​IMG]
    it's not isometric, but the rules are the same. This is labeled as a "test version", but the internet seems to think this is a public domain release... and if the concept is in the public domain, is it yours to license to Sega?

    And didn't you just steal the concept anyway?

    Because this is Ataxx from 1990, and other than having fancy level designs, it's the same thing (it even uses the term "colony"). And Ataxx owes its existence to a 1988 home computer game called "Infection" - Virgin Mastertronic picked up the rights and handed them to the Leland Corporation, also releasing Spot: The Video Game (predecessor of Cool Spot) along the way. It was also in the 1993 PC game, 7th Guest .

    So it's not really 1999, or 1991, but 1988.

    Or 1883, because all of these implementations are glorified Reversi.
    [​IMG]
    Infection is different to Reversi (or Othello, the "standardised" version of Reversi), but you can play it on a Reversi board and the goal is the same. It would be a faff to play it manually with all the disk flipping , but I have a hard time believing that nobody invented the idea in the 105 years before Infection was programmed.


    And anyway, who wants to play the "square" versions of these games, when Hexxagons are the bestagons.

    [​IMG]
    A better job was done in 1993. And an online remake has existed since time immemorial:

    https://hexxagon.com/
     
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  4. Black Squirrel

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    I'm sure I could solve this if I could be bothered, but I can't, so I won't.

    I noticed a few places on Sega Retro were pointing towards Cartoon Network, so I thought I'd write a quick page. Nickelodeon has had one for a while, so it only seems fair.


    So here's a fun fact: the internet doesn't know what Cartoon Network is. A company? A television channel? An animation studio? Is it secretly Turner? Is it secretly Warner Bros.? It is secretly Hanna-Barbera? Is it everything? Is it nothing?


    Wikipedia claims to have the answer - "The Cartoon Network, Inc."... except if you search for that online you find... Wikipedia, and people copying Wikipedia. The sources are a bit flimsy and it's not mentioned on Cartoon Network's own website... which means they're either hiding their history, or the history is wrong. You can track the life and times of Ted Turner and the parent companies pretty easily, but the current business structure isn't forthcoming - I'd have to dig into annual reports and the Wayback Machine, and I don't feel like doing that today.

    Do we care? Kind of - Samurai Jack: The Shadow of Aku credits "Cartoon Network", but if it really means "The Cartoon Network (Inc.)", the page needs renaming. Shenmue the Animation credits Adult Swim, but the page says Cartoon Network - I'm not sure how correct the terms are.


    Thing is, millions of kids were exposed to Cartoon Network, and some of us grew up to be pathetic single men with too much time on their hands. Wikipedia might be right, but I'm surprised it isn't super obvious - it has that "Sonic the Hedgehog was released on the 23rd June 1991" vibe about it.


    Just a curiosity - a few days ago YouTube notified me of KnowledgeHusk's "nobody cares about AI anymore" video, and while I'm not sure I fully agree (because it's still an active buzzword where I'm from), it did make me think about the productivity question. I would guess that if I ask any AI algorithm about the history of Cartoon Network, they'd all tell the above tale, because they all use the internet as a base, and Wikipedia's claims are so widespread. In this situation, I'd want to double check anything the script generated... and at that point, you might as well do the research on your own.
     
  5. Oh wow, what a coincidence! I know quite a bit about this subject *and* it's tangentially relevant to the old pro wrestling stuff I've been watching lately!

    So I don't know the earliest beginnings, but in the early 1990s, Ted Turner's TBS (Turner Broadcasting System) channel occasionally aired cartoon blocks with shorts involving Dpace Ghost Coast 2 Coast character interactions as wrappers under the name "Cartoon Planet." I *think* this was a factor in Cartoon Network launching, but I didn't have the channel at launch, so...

    In any case, by April 1995 the channel definitely existed; some of these WCW show I'm watching are from VHS recordings and when I don't skip the commercials I've seen a few ads promoting then-new shows airing on Cartoon Network, and they don't treat it as a channel that had just launched.

    Adult Swim is... weird. There was a company owned by Turner called "Ghost Planet Industries" that produced Space Ghost Coast 2 Coast and Cartoon Planet for TBS, then around 2001-ish, the parent company gave them their own block late at night on Cartoon Network. Ghost Planet Industries renamed themselves "Williams Street" at some point and they wrote the bumpers between shows as well as producing a handful of them and funding others, this is what they still do today.

    Also around late 2000/early 2001, Ted Turner sold TBS and related companies to AOL Time Warner, which has gone through so many mergers and splits over the years that I'm not going to even begin trying to list them out.

    Anyway, somewhere in there AOL Time Warner registered Adult Swim as a separate channel with the FCC, legally they are two separate "channels" that happen to air on the same channel in different timeslots.
     
  6. Chimes

    Chimes

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    I did witness a really good rundown from someone a few years ago, but I can't find it. The way I understand it, Cartoon Network is a television channel that's owned by Turner waddling around as a company name (think Sonic Team being just a name), whose programming includes original content that was once created by Hanna-Barbera, but much of its alumni moved towards that channel's own animation studio (Powerpuff Girls and Billy & Mandy were originally Hanna-Barbera, but after the latter melted they were helmed by the same people under a different studio later). SoNick does a good job detailing the history.

    Initially in 1992 their content were just cartoons, as in a bunch of old forties Warner Bros. theatrical shorts and MGM sprinkled into the mix. They branched out to original content and later got more cartoons in their package. I wish I could elaborate on this but I'm no longer in contact with the person who would know more about this.
     
  7. Azookara

    Azookara

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    Cartoon Network (the network) was created by Turner in 1992 to showcase their then-recently-acquired Hanna-Barbera and MGM animation libraries. Then Time Warner purchased Turner in 1995, leading to the addition of Looney Tunes / Merrie Melodies on the network. While the programming has changed over the past 30 years, the network is still running as it were.

    Cartoon Network Studios, however, is a more complicated matter.

    In 1994, Hanna-Barbara Studios began work on original programming to beef up their network. They initially were going to rebrand H-B Studios as "Cartoon Network Studios" by 1995, but decided against it for the release of their shows Johnny Bravo and The Powerpuff Girls, hence them keeping the logo used in their 1980s/early 90s productions.

    By 1999, however, Warner Bros wanted to fold Hanna-Barbera Studios into their own Warner Bros Animation (of Animaniacs, Iron Giant, Space Jam etc), but wanted to keep the high quality output and momentum of CN's brand going. So the majority the staff making CN's original programming were allowed to exit from the studio merger, where they then made an official Cartoon Network Studios as a separate branch.

    This lasted until 2022, when Warner Bros Discovery decided to merge CNS with Warner Bros Animation (much to the hatred of everyone involved). The CNS brand is now used as a hat for when they make new IP related to past Cartoon Network shows, but the studios themselves have been dissolved into Warner Bros Animation.

    It's a mouthful, but that's the rundown.
     
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  8. Black Squirrel

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    I was checking Sega's 1995 annual report for something, and a couple of paragraphs caught my eye:

    https://archive.org/details/sega-annual-report-1995/Sega Annual Report (1995)/page/n5/mode/2up
    (we have this on the wiki, but it's easier to read on archive.org)

    I came across some similarly weirdly worded language the other day from a similar point in time. It turns out, the whole concept of "multi-media"... didn't exist until 1993. As in, it wasn't a word that was used.

    But unlike other words that weren't used until a specified point in time, e.g. "e-mail" or "internet", apparently for the briefest of periods, this term was being used to entice investors. You know, just like "blockchain" and now "AI" - doesn't matter what it means, it just sounds modern and on-trend. And so Sega uses the term three four times and tries to invent a new buzzword, "network multimedia". Sega's business didn't change much between 1990 and 2000 - they made video games first and foremost, but amazingly they found themselves producing "multimedia" around this period, despite there being no such thing at the beginning of the decade. What a coincidence.


    It's when you look on MobyGames and find there are 10,000+ results for "multimedia". Companies springing up called "xxx Multimedia". Special "multimedia" versions of games. Pentium "MMX" technology.... which apparently doesn't mean anything but people assumed it was multimedia and therefore investible.

    I was there in 1995, and while yes, I was very young... I don't remember this. I remember "information super highway" and the dot com bubble, but I don't recall anyone buying into something on the grounds it said "multimedia". When I think of the term, I think stuffy CDs with Encarta 97 on them or something - even if it was technically innovative, it wasn't very exciting, even then.
     
  9. Ted909

    Ted909

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    Mentioned in Nakayama's company speech from 1994 too:
     
  10. doc eggfan

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    Earthion is getting an arcade release!?! In 2025!?! Are there any arcades left open these days.
    It's not an emulated mega drive, but a conversion to the exA-Arcadia platform - a new cartridge-based arcade board released in 2019. I did not know this thing existed. I thought arcade gaming was basically dead.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExA-Arcadia
    https://exa.ac/en/what-is-exa-arcadia/?v=0f177369a3b7
     
  11. Chimes

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    I mean, by all means mainstream arcades are pretty much dead. But the independent arcades have kind of mutated; even here in North America, there's one arcade at the Skylon Tower that turned into Lonesome George that gets attention for having some really old Model 1 and X Board games. I once watched a video last night about a place in Japan that has a ton of Astro City cabinets where you have to turn on and turn off the machines yourself.



    So yeah 80's style arcades are dead but the independent ones have mutated into their own nice niche and it's cool and terrifying
     
  12. Arcades are a lot more relevant in Japan. There's a special arcade version of SF6, and SEGA's Japanese website proudly has a section dedicated to their arcade games.
     
  13. doc eggfan

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    I was starting to get the message that arcades *used* to be a lot more relevant in Japan, but post-covid they were starting to struggle for relevancy just like in the rest of the world. (ie Sega sold off all the arcade centres they owned, and under new management a lot of them were closing down).
     
  14. Chimes

    Chimes

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    suddendesu's twitter and bluesky give a grim picture of what's happening there: There's some modern arcade centres but nearly all the surviving retro ones got closed down the past few years and you have to drive out the prefecture to find more

    upload_2024-11-24_8-49-19.png
     
  15. Trippled

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    Ironically, Sega western arcade branch is more prominent with new games developed by 3MindWave, a Chinese start up. Supervised by a Japanese arcade dev employee that lives in Shanghai. By comparision, Sega of Japan just updates their existing games (about 4 at the moment)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2024
  16. Ted909

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    Last time I checked Oga-Shi is actually living in Kowloon City on Hong Kong, which is where 3MW were founded and all of their software development is done. I think they do now have some sort of machine hardware manufacturing or development side in the mainland though (he was saying something about the people from there being denied Visas to travel for overseas trade shows recently).

    Nearly everything else at Japan's arcade side besides those four titles (Maimai, Chunithm, Eiketsu Taisen, Initial D) and a bit for APM3 (e.g. VFES 2.0, VF3tb Online, games by Success) is indeed now focused on UFO Catchers, medal games, photo booths and the odd other thing like that new Paw Patrol kiddie ride. Would've been a little more fun if they'd remade Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car considering it's exactly the same premise...
     
  17. Trippled

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  18. Ted909

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    It kind of did happen a few times, even if not for Daytona, Sega Rally 3 etc - both the Transformers shooters Sega Amusements did with Sega Shanghai Studio were given a full release there, about a year or two after the Western one (the first even got that special R360 revival version for Joypolis), and Tokyo Joypolis also prominently had the arcade version of Sonic & Sega Allstars Racing they made with Sumo Digital for a good while as well.

    Apparently there were plans to do their Mission Impossible Arcade as an attraction for Joypolis too... but I'm not sure if those still stand currently (it did get that massive SDX version done with Hiroki Nunokawa anyway). Offering the game as a low cost conversion kit for Japan's newer Transformers cabinets would actually be best now, as there was a new environmental theater-style version of MI using their base spotted on test in the UK just recently
     
  19. Black Squirrel

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    I like the way even the "tangentially related" stories end up being Sega stories.

    [​IMG]
    Sega MultiMedia Studio (demo) dates back to Summer CES 1992, which means
    a) the internet lied to me again
    b) Sega of America might be a contender for the first technology company to use the term.

    no the Mega-CD doesn't refer to itself (in any region) as a multimedia device. The Mega-CD 2 does, but we're into 1993 then anyway so who cares.
     
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  20. doc eggfan

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    I don't know whether this is tangentially related to Sega, but I wanted to put it somewhere