Tails Tube

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Mar 24, 2022.

  1. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    The issue is that SEGA are saying they're not even friends. They team up as a unit, yes, but are not and were never friends.

    We dislike this because they were clearly friends before the Iizukaning:

    30:40


    Omega displays regret at being the one to seal Shadow in the future, and Rouge proclaims that if the world turns on Shadow, she'll always be by his side. Clearly, the language of indifferent strangers at best.
     
  2. This is basically the problem lol. The character development they went through was basically rendered null and void and has been ignored in all games afterwards. This is a pretty big shift to just go and say "lol nothing's changed"

    Shadow being reduced to a stock Shonen rival character has the side effect of rendering Rouge and Omega functionally useless as characters since Sega all but ignores them in recent games outside of multiplayer spin off fodder.
     
  3. Where was this? I just rescanned the thread and didn’t see something to which this was specifically replying (though it is 2:50 and I’ve had a drink).

    I have (regrettably) gained a slight appreciation for 06 after the deluge of zoomer YouTube videos praising it, and I agree with the majority of them in that Shadow’s story was pretty enjoyable from a character-standpoint.
     
  4. Pengi

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    This isn't a new development though. It's a given that nothing that happened in Sonic 2006 really counts. We've known that since 2006.

    Rouge is a spy, a thief, a femme fatale and a manipulator, but also a decent person deep down. That's a lot to play with. She doesn't need Shadow to be a useful character with a ton of story potential. They got a lot of mileage out of her in Sonic X both before Shadow was introduced and after he "died".

    Shadow is the difficult character because his story was effectively over in his first game, then the "Who am I?" direction they took in Sonic Heroes and the Shadow game also got wrapped up (with an underwhelming conclusion).

    Omega is barely even a character.
     
  5. The arc went through in Heroes still happened, so logically something akin to the development they went through in 06 could happen. But Sega chose to basically ignore any all development they had regardless of 06 being erased or not.

    None of this has anything to do with the overall point being made here; Shadow, Rouge, and Omega had an entire character arc revolving around forming a collective team of companions that Sega has chosen to ignore and pretend never happened in favor portrayals of them that are nowhere near as interesting to watch under any circumstance.

    Yes Rouge is a spy and a thief, with a heart of gold. you know what showcased that? When she showed concern over Shadow's identity crisis in Heroes and him having to potentially face the world in 06, or her letting Shadow sleep in her club in Sonic Battle. No she doesn't NEED Shadow, but all of those trait you described literally were at their most apparent when her and Shadow are a team, and nowhere to be seen ever since they decided they are no longer a team.

    And you know how you help prolong the longevity of Shadow's character while still acknowledging his character arc? Its showing him healing from his trauma and actually making FRIENDS in Rouge and Omega. And not, completely disregarding his story and then just shoving him into the occasional boss fight for Sonic to fight. All of these things were apparent in Sonic Battle and Sonic 06.

    And you know how Omega was a character, by showing he was able to grow beyond his goal of destroying Eggman and going from caring less about Shadow and Rouge to considering them friends.


    Look, I don't really care how you feel about these characters or whatever. If you never really cared about Team Dark and just prefer them separate, be my guest. (and from how you're speaking, that's the impression you're getting) But the least you could do is acknowledge that Sega is intentionally trying to retool these characters into something far less interesting or dynamic, which is obviously going to upset people who were a fan of these characters back in the day.

    If you wanna adhere to Sega's mandates about these characters, fine. But I don't have agree or like it and I'm within my right to protest against it.
     
  6. Pengi

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    Shadow, Rouge and Omega are shown working together in the two most recent Sonic games. Those team-ups haven't gone away. The three of them still do things together. Shadow is just a more of a dick.

    It sounds like Sonic 2006 is the outlier here, and that's the story that, by design, undid itself.
     
  7. I kind of feel like you're intentionally missing the point on purpose to get a rise out of me, even after I already explained it in detail.

    So on that note, I'm just gonna end this tangent and go about my business. Have a good night sir.
     
  8. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

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    Unless you count Chronicles, 2006 and Heroes were the only games where “team dark” (which was just a gameplay term in Heroes and never an official group name outside of the comics) had any major character dynamic, and both times they were grouped together by circumstance. In Heroes they’re barely a team, and in 2006 they’re together because Shadow’s hired by the president to find Rouge, and Omega is in Soleana for the same reason as most of the cast (none) and they all team up. There’s good development there and it does seem clear that Shadow has some genuine feelings for them by the end of the story, but all that got wiped out both in-universe and out. The way the Archie comics did with them working for GUN together was nice and made sense (though I don’t think Rouge technically works for GUN in the games?) but it’s not something that Sega planned out.
     
  9. Yes, and I'm saying what Sega "planned out" is stupid and should be ignored. I'd rather trust the guy who is actually involved with the creative process of this series, as opposed to a bunch of corporate decisions made with the sole purpose of profit margins. Obviously Flynn has to adhere to what Sega says, but I really do wish they would just leave him to his own devices since I feel like fans trust him enough with handling this lore and characters.

    Sega do not see the cast as actual characters, but just mascots to toss around and plaster over products to sell. That's the amount of worth these characters are to Sega.

    It's just that before, they at least tried to flesh them out in some way until critics and some sects of the fanbase complained loud enough and now they're functions to sell to kids and adults who played Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes when they were kids.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2022
  10. MykonosFan

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    Just to nudge in here quickly, this is the Tails Tube thread. I'm hoping they'll address this in the next one (if we presume that Tails Tube will continue to dish out some lore/character clarifications, which I also hope it will).

    But in the meantime this discussion may fit better in the continuity thread or in a new Team Dark thread altogether.
     
  11. Shaddy the guy

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    Eh it's not like there's much else to discuss other than "more things they could theoretically talk about". Still, the idea of Tails Tube being a dedicated lore series would be really promising. Personally I'd prefer they do a Knuckles episode, if just to make a defined excuse for who's guarding the Master Emerald when he's not around. It doesn't even matter what the excuse is, just that they make one (and, frankly, that IDW can use him a little bit more).
     
  12. Snub-n0zeMunkey

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    I wonder if they'll explain that one scene in Adventure 2 where Knuckles randomly shrinks the Master Emerald and pulls it out of nowhere
     
  13. Trickster's Joke

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    I think an episode about the ME would be wonderful or the chaos emeralds to explain a bit how they work, but I don't think that will happen. Or at least not in the level of detail you might want, chaos emeralds just seem to work of the will and desires of those around them in some contexts. In others, just energy batteries, in others only warp time and space. I'm not saying you can't consolidate those explanations together but trying to do so ruins the mystery of it all so I don't feel like you can offer satisfactory information on that regard.

    I personally want a blaze episode, there isn't a lot of info on her and her world and I want to see if there is anymore. Blaze is cool.

    As for shadow

    I feel like the shadow topic is genuinely interesting and can go into more detail, but we would be here a while. Sufficed to say, while yes they weren't ever an official team. Sega saw fit to have them be friends and be around each other in not just the games, but also spin off material like the comics. The change to shadow and team dark at large seems recent, as recent as after actually. You can bring up TSR as those three being together but the information booklet and the game itself doesn't act like they are friends and are only around each other for convince. You can say 06 wasn't canon but Ian was allowed to draw inspiration from it for shadow's characterization in the pre- and post reboot. There is a distinctive change , and to suggest otherwise is silly.

    All that said I think the core issue here is you all are engaging this from the wrong angle. And aren't speaking about the language used by Ian Flynn in the bunblekast "Team Dark is an out of universe brand meant to sell products " . That right there indicates to me that this whole reason that they are separate isn't because intent ( though I do think iizuka being the guy in charge writing shadows lines himself in TSR and having partially created shadow himself along with writing his game where he's more aggro and solo may play a part ) I also don't think its because " actually they were never a team or friends " or whatever weird gaslighting mess you intended to do being purposefully disingenuous when both authors the comics, ruby eclipse and multiple other people who have worked on sonic have remarked shadow is different.

    I think there was a data set. And that data set indicated that shadow sells more, by himself. And I think that's literally why all this is happening. And I think that makes sense, rouge has never been that popular, no one knows who omega is or cares besides super fans. So there's likely people who just want to see shadow do things by himself. And if i'm being honest, I'm one of those people. In the sense of I just want shadow to interact with other people (and the cast in general the team structure has limited character interaction ). But this could simply be solved by saying " Team dark doesn't hang out all the time" and that's it. This feels like wildly misinterpreted data ( used somewhat as an excuse to execute on some ideas by certain parties ) executed very poorly. A simple idea gone entirely too far, poorly thought out and executed worse is what sonic team does best.

    To actually connect this to the topic at large, I don't think tails tube will ever address this. Ian accidentally spilled the beans, the people doing this know that the audience generally doesn't like it, but I imagine in usual sega fashion are just doing it anyway because they have convinced themselves that it will work. You may get general info on shadow, likely debunking the mural theory. A year after film 3 you will get an off hand mention in official canon material that team are friends and cool and that's when you will know whoever in Sonic Team japan gave up.
     
  14. Zephyr

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    Correct. Instead they (apparently) call themselves Sonic Heroes. :V
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  15. Londinium

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    I genuinely, no joke, want a Tails Tube episode to explain why Tikal found it necessary to give Big the Cat visions of the past

    I'm not even trying to be funny, I'm bloody serious.
     
  16. Yash

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    I know it's like the coldest take on the planet by now, but a lot about Big's role in the story of Sonic Adventure genuinely perplexes me.

    It's kind of an interesting tack for the franchise to intersect the main cast's story with someone who's completely oblivious and detached from the main storyline yet keeps tripping over it anyway (just occurred to me the whole running gag of Forrest Gump meeting all these important people and shaping historical events while being none the wiser), it just feels a little too high-brow for a Sonic game, and by Heroes he's just integrated into the cast like they've all known him for years and pal around with him. I feel like SA2 did a better job at carrying on the theme/joke with Big by having him pop up randomly in levels rather than bringing him into the story in any meaningful way.
     
  17. Think we will get an episode about the status of the moon?
     
  18. Londinium

    Londinium

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    Didn't Izuka say the moon changed sides?
     
  19. Blue Spikeball

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    I mean, the moon does spin on its axis, and it was shown to be still partially destroyed in Shadow the Hedgehog IIRC. It makes sense that it would only look damaged when we're facing its "bad" side, and the rest of the time we're looking at its other side like Iizuka said. What's the big plot hole here?
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
  20. Dark Sonic

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    Because Big ended up part of the story as unintentional as it may have been. Foggy absorbed part of Chaos and ate a Chaos Emerald, Big may have really only wanted his friend back, but maybe Tikal was trying to help him understand what's happening? Big's a tad slow though so maybe he doesn't get it.

    No what I wonder is why'd Gamma go back? His mission seems mostly unrelated to the main story after the Egg Carrier crashes, and he's dead before Perfect Chaos happens and isn't even part of the ending like Big is.