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Tails Alone in Sonic 2 and the Chaos Emeralds

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by PikachuIntheShower, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. PikachuIntheShower

    PikachuIntheShower

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    I have to ask. Having gone through getting all the chaos emeralds with Tails Alone in Sonic 2, has anyone else ever gotten them all to find out it doesn't work? How did you take it?

    That aside, though, has anyone else noticed that it seems Tails' Special Stage runs seem easier than Sonic Alone or Sonic and Tails, or is it just me?
     
  2. Felik

    Felik

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    I never liked playing as Tails cause having 2 characters on screen always was more fun than one. So it never really bothered me

    Tails' special stages do not simply seem easier. They are easier cause ring tally is significantly lower. The same goes for Sonic alone.
     
  3. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    I'm surprised Super Tails in Sonic 2 isn't a hack by now.
    + - Or is it?  
     
  4. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    I rarely get them as Sonic; I only ever do it when I'm feeling in a completionist mood (in which case I'll do it with all three characters; nowadays I just play Sonic Classic Heroes instead, though).
     
  5. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    As a kid, it did always bug me that there are no differences between Sonic and Tails in S2, except that it's worth collecting the Emeralds as Sonic but not as as Tails. It just seemed pointless. And it bugged me further that they decided to keep up the trend of Tails not using the Chaos Emeralds in S3.
     
  6. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

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    You can't be Super Sonic in the final zone/boss, so it's not like you're at a disadvantage with Tails not having a super-form. Considering how slippery and hard to control Super Sonic is in Sonic 2 and that you are forced to transform after collecting 50 rings (it's not optional) then the super-form really isn't worth it. For this reason I prefer to get the final chaos emerald in Wing Fortress zone.

    What does annoy me about playing with Tails alone in the original version is that he can't fly. You only see him fly AI-controlled. There's no reason why Sonic Team couldn't have programmed Tails so you could control him flying. My guess is due to how Sonic 2 was rushed to release (in 1992) they just didn't have time to program Tails flying ability.

    In the special stages Tails alone requires the exact same ring totals as Sonic alone, whereas Sonic & Tails together have a slightly higher target. Knuckles (Knuckles in Sonic 2 lock-on) has a smaller ring total requirement in the special stages than Sonic or Tails alone.

    This is why StealthTax mobile version of Sonic 2 is the definitive version. You can fly with Tails and you have to press jump twice to activate Super Sonic.
     
  7. Felik

    Felik

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    Even though development process of Sonic 2 is a big mystery to us (aside from that they had to cut A LOT of things to get the game done in time), I'm pretty sure that no-fly was a comprehended (albeit an extremely lazy/simple) decision since Tails' main purpose (aside from being a sidekick) was for Sonic to have someone to race against in VS mode so that true multiplayer would be a thing. And the easiest way to balance him around Sonic is to make him a carbon copy of the blue rodent gameplay-wise
     
  8. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    This is why Sonic Classic Heroes is the definitive version. :v:
     
  9. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

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    If that was the case to make Tails a carbon copy, then why bother giving him the ability to fly in the first place? Why not just have a fox with one tail with the exact same move-set as Sonic. I can appreciate Tails with the ability to fly would give - in some circumstances - and unfair advantage in two player vs. I also appreciate none of the stages in Sonic 2 have been designed to take advantage of Tails flight, with the exception of Tails being able to reach the top of some buildings in zones like Chemical Plant which can allow you to finish the stage faster.

    I've played quite a few fan games/hacks where they've added Tails flying ability and it makes the gameplay so much more interesting. Just look at Sonic 3&K. Tails alone has so much freedom. Routes design specifically for him. Being able to navigate Sonic routes differently/creatively due to the slower-pace generated by his flight. The Tails assist move (using the second control-pad) to pick up Sonic was a great idea. Being forced to fight the Marble Garden zone boss differently with Tails (alone) was clever.

    Also, why did SEGA allow StealthTax to add Tails flying ability to the mobile versions? Simple, it adds replay value and it feels natural.

    I just feel that it was a lazy and very bad decision not to give Tails the ability to fly in Sonic 2.

    This (and some of the other design choices) is why I consider Sonic 1, CD and 3&K to be much better games.
     
  10. Zycor

    Zycor

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    Beats me.
    To be fair, they disabled Knuckles being able to glide in the competition/2 player mode in Sonic 3 and Knuckles, despite having redrawn the sprites for it in the smaller graphics for it, but Tails can fly... Not that the levels are really designed for it to give any real advantage. I don't think Tails being able to fly would have really broken the races, if you're flying you're probably not going at top speed.

    I think Tails was mostly given the ability to fly because they felt it would be the most sensible way for Tails to get back should he fall behind or die and respawn. Although I won't deny Tails flying in from the top of the screen in his dead pose was funny in the pre-final versions of the game.
     
  11. PikachuIntheShower

    PikachuIntheShower

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    IIRC, you can get Tails in Sonic 3 & Knuckles if you get all 7 chaos emeralds and get the super emeralds. He's glowing with golden flickies orbiting him.

    Now THAT would have been awesome to see in Sonic 2.

    I realize that, but gotta go fast. ;D
     
  12. big smile

    big smile

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    It's true that Tails flight had not advantage, unless you have a sneaky player in Balloon Park. That was always my favourite glitch!


    I wish they had just made it that Tails would snap back to Sonic when crossing the screen boundary. Having him fly back ruined most of the fun that could be had from co-op.
     
  13. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    I think what he meant was that Tails can't use the regular Chaos Emeralds. You can get Super Sonic during Hydrocity Zone, and Super Knuckles at the beginning of Marble Garden. But there's no Super Tails until all the way to Mushroom Hill.
     
  14. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    Yep. Thought it was obvious. Basically you get fewer rewards for playing as Tails.
     
  15. Clownacy

    Clownacy

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    Shh...

    But, yeah, hit me like a frying pan to the face. I can't stand S2's special stages as-is, but to go through all that with no reward (not even an alternate ending)...

    It's not even that bad from a programming perspective. Seriously, it took me all of 20 minutes to get where I did, and it seems complete enough. I mean, did they want new-guy Miles to be that uninteresting, just there to make Sonic look good?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2023
  16. Jen

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    That used to bug me when I was a little kid, because Tails was my favourite character back then; I much prefer Sonic nowadays though, both gameplay-wise and as a character, so whatever. I reckon it was done this way because Tails is effectively the "easy mode" in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, so it would make sense for there to be less rewards when playing as him (and perhaps to keep some consistency with Sonic 2?).

    As for Sonic 2, I guess there's a couple of possibilities. Looking at the prototypes we have, Super Sonic was quite a last-minute addition, so it's possible that there just wasn't enough time to implement a Super Tails as well. Personally, though, I think it's far more likely that Super Tails was omitted to make Sonic the "better" character out of the two of them, particularly if Tails was planned to have the flight ability available to the player at one point - I mean, Sonic's literally the main character and Tails is simply the sidekick.
     
  17. Toasty

    Toasty

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    Super Sonic is so glitchy in Sonic 2 he's almost unplayable. I've transformed into Super Sonic by accident after hitting the end sign so many times I don't even bother getting the last chaos emerald until WFZ. Transforming into Super Sonic after hitting the level end sign causes the game to become unplayable. It's so nice playing as Tails and not having to worry about annoying glitches.
     
  18. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    Awesome, are you going to share?
     
  19. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    All it needs is the Invincibility Stars spiraling around Super Tails.

    :v:

    No, I'm never going to get that idea to die. I remember someone who tried hacking it in saying that doing that causes problems with the VRAM in Hill Top Zone during the quake segments, but I've had the effect enabled in both acts and never saw the problem manifest. Mind you, Sonic 2 hacking at the time wasn't as documented as it is now, so maybe it was a programming error back then that should be avoidable now.

    (For those who don't know, if you transform in Sonic 2 into Super Sonic while under the effect of Invincibility, the stars permanently stick with the form. It actually looks pretty cool.)
     
  20. FlackoWeasel

    FlackoWeasel

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    Always played Sonic 2 as Tails and I remember I was once dissapointed that Tails did not turn into Super, but I still chose him over Sonic cause I like Tails the way he looks. I only remember an annoying glitch with Tails when I collected all emeralds (or without, can't remember) where Tails keps missing the plane when it needed to jump on it to go to space, but missed. I still haven't found solution why this happened, did I hurry too much or spindashed too much that it messed up something but it ruined my game :D.

    It did not happen all the time though, sometimes only, and I always prayed (praied) that plz don't miss the jump, Tails!