Suggested apps for Windows 98?

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Namo, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. Namo

    Namo

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    I'm running Windows 98 on Virtual PC (not right now, but yeah), and I know a few people here still run it here. So my question is, what are some suggested applications, in terms of Web-browsers, instant messengers, Media Players, and the like? I'm on my actual machine at the moment.
     
  2. Mad Echidna

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    I made a thread about this but I can't seem to find it at the moment. It would probably be a good idea to merge it with this.

    Anyway, Opera still supports windows 9x officially, so that's always a great option. Firefox works pretty well with Kernel Ex.

    I'd say just install the stable version of Kernel Ex and try your usual apps, you'll be surprised how much stuff will run fine.
     
  3. I'm running Windows 98 on Virtual PC (not right now, but yeah), and I know a few people here still run it here. So my question is, what are some suggested applications, in terms of Web-browsers, instant messengers, Media Players, and the like? I'm on my actual machine at the moment.

    Web browser: Opera 10
    Instant Messenger: Miranda IM, Skype, x-Chat
    Media Players: WinAMP 2.95, VLC
     
  4. I'm kind of curious on why would people still use Windows 98 on a production machine to this date. Is it for the compability with old games or software? Is it because of uncapable hardware? I mean, hardware that runs at least Windows XP should be less than $30 on a garage sale. Or is it just a hobby thing?

    I mean, Windows 98 doesn't have protected memory or a hardware abstraction layer, FAT32 is not journaled and fragments easily, there's no data execution prevention, the network stack doesn't support IPv6, the DirectX that ships/can be installed probably doesn't support shaders, it doesn't support multi-core processors, or a true multi-user environment. And it BSoDs.
     
  5. Lobotomy

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    Man, if the 9X kernel had a 64-bit version, DirectX 9+ support, and modern drivers, I'd be using it right now instead of 7.

    I can see it now: 0% CPU usage, 0% RAM usage. All the time.
     
  6. Namo

    Namo

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    <!--quoteo(post=508229:date=Sep 19 2010, 11:09 PM:name=MarkTheEchidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MarkTheEchidna @ Sep 19 2010, 11:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=508229">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm kind of curious on why would people still use Windows 98 on a production machine to this date. Is it for the compability with old games or software? Is it because of uncapable hardware? I mean, hardware that runs at least Windows XP should be less than $30 on a garage sale. Or is it just a hobby thing?

    I mean, Windows 98 doesn't have protected memory or a hardware abstraction layer, FAT32 is not journaled and fragments easily, there's no data execution prevention, the network stack doesn't support IPv6, the DirectX that ships/can be installed probably doesn't support shaders, it doesn't support multi-core processors, or a true multi-user environment. And it BSoDs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not sure why other people like 98 still, but I know I do because in my experiences with it, it never fucked up as much as my current system does. I used Windows 98 for well over 7 years, and got 3 blue screens total, but aside from that, Windows 98 rarely gave me issues. And all of those Blue Screens happened close to each other and the problem was easily fixable. Windows XP for me fucks up on an almost daily basis.

    Part of my reasons, yes, are also compatibility reasons with certain programs.
     
  7. TmEE

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    For me it is all about performance and compatibility with old stuff

    Like it was commented earlier : 0% RAM, 0% CPU :P

    ...and games run ~10% faster aswell :P

    As for programs to use :

    Internet Browsing : Opera for out of box support, FireFox if you have installed KernelEx (do not try using KEX 3.5 RC2 and RC3, you will kill your system if certain conditions are met, which happened to me)
    I also keep hearing K-Meleon on MSFN forums. I have yet to try it, but it was told its just as compatible as Opera is, but much faster.

    Instant Messaging : Miranda IM, mayhaps MSN Messenger 5.0 (no ads and crap), Skype

    Media Players : Winamp 5.35, XMplay, WMP 6.4+ffdshow... I used to use BSplayer but it was unstable.


    KernelEx 3.5 RC1, Revolutions Pack 9, Unofficial Service Pack 3.04b are must installs.
     
  8. Andlabs

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    Writing my own MD/Genesis sound driver :D
    I'm sorry, I have to disagree with all of you (including MarkTheEchidna; a lot of your reasons are wrong [for example, 9x does have protected memory]), but 9x is an unmaintained DOS executable that won't run anything that will come out in the next 10 years, KernelEx or not. "0% RAM 0% HDD 0% CPU" is NOT a legitimate excuse to run 9x over XP or 7. If you seriously want a system that uses as little RAM as possible (hint: THIS IS WHAT PAGING WAS DESIGNED FOR) or as little CPU power as possible (hint: APPS GENERALLY CAUSE CPU USAGE, NOT THE OS KERNEL), get a Linux system and install the lowlatency kernel. I've found that some apps (most noticeably Famitracker) run more smoothly in Wine than on native Windows — and this is with XP, not 9x.

    The only one here who has even half of a legit excuse to run 9x is Tiido. while he can still find more modern alternatives like FreeDOS or Linux-lowlatency that let him take advantage of more refined hardware toolsm, Tiido's oodles of experience with directly working with older hardware pretty much shows that he can easily and swiftly make the most of the system he's using, so if it works for him, I have no complaints. I can't say the same about anyone else here, sorry.

    There are also people here (I will leave unnamed) who insist on using older software because he automatically assumes that new software is 100% guaranteed to be slower and more bloated without even considering for a second to at least TRY the newer software to see if it is that bad. I'm sorry, but I don't understand the hypocrisy of Retro's computer users. I write software using the Qt portability toolkit and I can guarantee now you won't be able to run GenesisTracker, my VGM player, or future software I write on 9x. Sorry.

    So, like with the Debian thread, can someone please explain to me why 9x is seriously being made a consideration as a production OS? Thanks.
     
  9. Namo

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    I'm running 98 on a Virtual Machine, for shits and giggles. You know, fun. Something that seems to be a lost art nowadays. I have enough sense to know not to install Windows 98 over Windows XP, hence Virtual Machine. Cool your damn jets. I can run whatever OS I want whenever I want, because it's my fucking computer.
     
  10. Andlabs

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    Writing my own MD/Genesis sound driver :D
    I wasn't complaining about you. You can freely run it for shits and giggles; in fact, I agree that running old OSs have some sort of novelty appeal. I was primarily targeting the people here who run 98 for serious day-to-day use. Perhaps the above post should have been placed in the "98 is still viable" thread.

    In any case I challenge you to get Qt 4 working on 98 and GenesisTracker running by consequence. Good luck :)
     
  11. TmEE

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    Paging is slow :P OS should not use up like 500....1000MBytes of available RAM and then when you run a game or something all of it is written on the HDD and in the end read back from it (well, not all of it, but you get the idea).
    Regarding Linux, I actually liked it, as long as I was in text mode, in GFX side things weren't that great, like XP with generic VESA drivers, or dare I say, worse... OpenSUSE was what I was messing with.

    Qt part should not be of problems (I've ran quite a few Qt programs without issues), its the PortAudio that is problematic... your earlier betas worked :P

    I don't feel like arguing... there's crazy people out there, I'm one of them, we don't shit on your setup, don't shit on ours :P
     
  12. Billy

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    If you're really worried about the OS using too much memory, I'd recommend TinyXP and things like it over 98. I had an old Sony computer that didn't even do so well with Windows 2000, but TinyXP ran like a champ on it.
     
  13. Andlabs

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    Writing my own MD/Genesis sound driver :D
    <!--quoteo(post=508488:date=Sep 20 2010, 05:29 PM:name=TmEE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TmEE @ Sep 20 2010, 05:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=508488">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Qt part should not be of problems (I've ran quite a few Qt programs without issues), its the PortAudio that is problematic... your earlier betas worked :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Huh, yeah I just remembered that now. PortAudio is OSS but requires Visual C++ 2008 to build (I tried to import the project into 2010 and it crashed; the MinGW port is unmaintained and consequentially won't build at all). Will that run?

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't feel like arguing... there's crazy people out there, I'm one of them, we don't shit on your setup, don't shit on ours :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah, I specifically said your uses of 98 are actually okay uses, considering how well you code ASM =P Yeah, forget this argument.
     
  14. TmEE

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    ...and at work I don't use 98 that much, it is more convenient to do certain tasks on XP such as anti virus scans and disk repairs, plus complete NTFS support comes in handy every once in a while aswell.

    ...and about VC++ 2008, no idea, I had MSVCR90.DLL (that seems to be 2007)and older in my system folder(wohoo rhyme)
     
  15. Namo

    Namo

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    <!--quoteo(post=508499:date=Sep 20 2010, 06:03 PM:name=Billy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Billy @ Sep 20 2010, 06:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=508499">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're really worried about the OS using too much memory, I'd recommend TinyXP and things like it over 98. I had an old Sony computer that didn't even do so well with Windows 2000, but TinyXP ran like a champ on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I am definitely taking that into consideration - that sounds just about perfect.
     
  16. Andlabs

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    Writing my own MD/Genesis sound driver :D
    <!--quoteo(post=508705:date=Sep 21 2010, 04:05 AM:name=TmEE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TmEE @ Sep 21 2010, 04:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=508705">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...and about VC++ 2008, no idea, I had MSVCR90.DLL (that seems to be 2007)and older in my system folder(wohoo rhyme)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    MSVCRT90.DLL is the 2008 runtime library, so I assume there's not much stopping 2008 itself from running. .net 3?
     
  17. Conan Kudo

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    <!--quoteo(post=508537:date=Sep 20 2010, 06:09 PM:name=Andlabs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andlabs @ Sep 20 2010, 06:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=508537">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=508488:date=Sep 20 2010, 05:29 PM:name=TmEE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TmEE @ Sep 20 2010, 05:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=508488">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Qt part should not be of problems (I've ran quite a few Qt programs without issues), its the PortAudio that is problematic... your earlier betas worked :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Huh, yeah I just remembered that now. PortAudio is OSS but requires Visual C++ 2008 to build (I tried to import the project into 2010 and it crashed; the MinGW port is unmaintained and consequentially won't build at all). Will that run?

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't feel like arguing... there's crazy people out there, I'm one of them, we don't shit on your setup, don't shit on ours :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah, I specifically said your uses of 98 are actually okay uses, considering how well you code ASM =P Yeah, forget this argument.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I've been able to successfully compile SVN revisions of PortAudio in MinGW (using the SCons scripts, blech). I've also made GenesisTracker and other Qt apps work on 9x when I build everything for source (obviously). But I'm not providing my 9x builds. One, because I only did it because of a dare, and two, because running Win9x for production purposes TODAY is stupid...
     
  18. TmEE

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    <!--quoteo(post=508741:date=Sep 21 2010, 03:04 PM:name=Andlabs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andlabs @ Sep 21 2010, 03:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=508741">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->MSVCRT90.DLL is the 2008 runtime library, so I assume there's not much stopping 2008 itself from running. .net 3?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    .NET 3.x will not work out on 9x, I once tried to install 3.0 and it showed me many fails during install....


    Sad thing is that in the world of laptops, XP is being pushed out... there's less and less drivers being made :/
     
  19. <!--quoteo(post=508705:date=Sep 21 2010, 10:05 AM:name=TmEE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TmEE @ Sep 21 2010, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=508705">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...and at work I don't use 98 that much, it is more convenient to do certain tasks on XP such as anti virus scans and disk repairs, plus complete NTFS support comes in handy every once in a while aswell.

    ...and about VC++ 2008, no idea, I had MSVCR90.DLL (that seems to be 2007)and older in my system folder(wohoo rhyme)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Although, Paragon NTFS for Windows98 is free and offers also full NTFS support =P
     
  20. TmEE

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    But not for files above 3.999999GB... when I copy user's stuff prior to doing a clean install or for whatever reason I run into DVD images etc. that are bigger than 4GB every once in a while...