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Spoiler Thread - SONIC X SHADOW GENERATIONS (SPOILERS!... Obviously.)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by JoshTH, Oct 12, 2024.

  1. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    I didn't mind the Sonic & Tails dialogue tbh. I actually think that by that point they should know it's from their past but not knowing what's exactly going on.

    Not a fan of the Shadow line though, kind of getting tired of every piece of media now doing the "they said the thing" from a previous entry or a reference to something. Even if it's an anniversary celebration.
     
  2. charcoal

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    The rewrite of the cutscenes seems rather pointless given the dialogue isn't even that different from the original besides the fact that Tails overtly namedrops the sonic 2 locations instead of just vaguely making a joke about the purple goop making him uneasy. I'm ambivalent towards it overall, but I'd at least like to see an option to use the original dialogue patched in for those who would prefer the old story.
     
  3. Azookara

    Azookara

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    I was expecting some hellish changes going by how people reacting here. And all I got was.... mostly non-reference dialogue? Tails namedropping West Side Island? Shadow saying "it'll be a date to die for"?

    ...This is fine. What are we going nuts over?
     
  4. That line felt unintentionally hilarious for a lot of us back in 2011 as it was a year after Sonic 4 Ep1’s release, same with the use of its grating title music during the final attack on Time Eater after teasing the intro of Live & Learn.
     
  5. No one really said anything about the 2nd one.

    People are just saying it's a rather pointless change. It's the same kind of reference, but now it's somehow a dryer dialogue exchange than before.
     
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  6. Chimpo

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    Only one guy is going Overboard. Everyone else has reasonable enough reactions. No need to downplay criticisms.
     
  7. ngl I haven't liked what I've seen of the changes so far, especially Amy's.

    Maybe it's a me thing, but I think the original script should be left as is or at least an option to access in game. It feels really strange to me to go over someone's writing and change a bunch of dialog for seemingly no reason. I know that Generations was not the ultimate story experience, but if you're not completely remaking the game then why bother?
     
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  8. Crimson Neo

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    Here's the (open-zone) White Space map picture:
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. But everyone generally agrees that the changes are harmless at best, and unnecessary at worst.


    Like I said, I think some of the reactions are about how these changes are going to impact the franchise a whole as opposed to the changes actually being good or bad. Because Generations' """Story"""" isn't really worth getting this worked up over.
     
  10. Azookara

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    Fair. But I guess I'm just not agreeing with the general criticisms really either.

    The original dialogue was really nothingburger. The new ones aren't much better, but I don't mind an attempt of brushing it up. I'd maybe feel more bothered that they're changing things if there was anything from the original story / dialogue for me to miss.

    So far the only thing with "weight" to it changing was Tails remembering West Side Island, which.. idk, I would've appreciated that line if it were in the original game, even if it's not much. I'm willing to hear this out.
     
  11. Jaxer

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    Sure, the original dialogue was full of references and wasn't exactly Shakespeare either.

    But it did not read like a bad One Piece scanlation from 2005!
     
  12. Azookara

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    See, that's the reaction that loses me on the argument. I don't see how this is supposed to be substantially worse.

    But I also haven't seen anything but these scenes. So maybe my mind will change later...!
     
  13. Chimpo

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    I don't get the impression that the majority here is getting worked over the changes. I combed over the thread again and I'm not seeing anything that you're reading into. Using myself as an example, I was short and rude with my "critique", but that's just how I am with everything. I don't think it's good, but ultimately I don't care because I'm mashing skip. Don't mean I can't say it stinks though.

    Do we have to start using laughing emojis to not give off the impression that we're seething red and mashing our keyboards?
     
  14. Mastered Realm

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    Let's not get ahead of ourselves, please.

    1. We don't know why SEGA deemed the change necessary. Again, Ian Flynn simply can't "oh yeah Sega, lets change the entire script and dubbing". Maybe SoJ thought the original script wasn't cohesive enough among languages?

    Anyway, if even you wanted to blame *something" because of the change, please do target the corporation, not an independent contractor.

    2. We don't know the extent of the changes. AFAIK very few scenes leaked, not all.

    3. The original Generations is not going away and will be kept listed through the legacy collection pack. If you already got other games in there you get it's price shaved off the total amount, too.

    As mentioned earlier, the OG script was inoffensive and just that. I'm more worried they introduced new bugs by messing with the game more than needed.
     
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  15. Beamer the Meep

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    I'm not going to veer too much into the Shadow Generations leaks, but I'm of two minds when it comes to the dialogue changes in Sonic Generations.

    Yes, I think adding lines for Modern Sonic after he saves his friends is handled poorly (I only saw the Knuckles clip, but I thought it just seemed awkward).

    I was kinda bothered by the fact that Tails can't place Chemical Plant in the original but I felt it fit what they were trying to do which was "something weird is going on, but we haven't quite figured it out yet" which one can argue is kinda dumb and undermines the characters, but it had some charm. Flipping the scene so that Sonic & Tails recognize the place but are confused by how they got there kinda takes some of the charm away but makes the characters seem more competent. It's not even really trying to be more faithful to the Japanese version of the scene which has the pair uncertain where they are, but certain that they have been there before.

    I will say though, I'm fairly certain this is not Ian's fault here. Sonic Team has heard the cries of the fandom about maintaining continuity loud and clear and now they're doing all they can to appease it. Sonic Frontiers was specifically mandated to be referential and I have no doubt a similar mandate was put in place here. Sonic Team is trying to rewrite their history so it's all coherent and up until now it hasn't bothered me too much since they reversed some dumb changes they made (two planets, alternate dimensions, etc.) and they cleared up some of the messy early stuff with Sonic Origins. That said, I think they may have crossed the line by actively rewriting an older game's dialogue in pursuit of that agenda. I can't exactly blame people for being upset by that, but like what Mastered is saying, let's not blame Ian here since he's 90% likely not to be the reason behind it.
     
  16. Crimson Neo

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  17. Chimpo

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    I hope whoever they hired for the Shadow Generations work stays indefinitely. Sonic Team had been needing better animators since 06.
     
  18. Sneasy

    Sneasy

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    Yeah it instead read like a bad One Piece abridged series from 2005.

    If people had displayed this respect for the original work at any point in the 13 years Sonic Generations has been out, they probably would not have chose to change it in the first place. Pontiff and Graff would appreciate that, instead of being treated as Satan's sons even today. They're the only people whom I believe actually care about preserving the original Generations' story... and even then I doubt they care that much either! They seem to be more proud of Forces and Colors.

    For people to suddenly see value in the original story when and only when they realized it would be changed at all, the reactions seem overblown, even when the reactions themselves are not.

    Generations' story is genuinely inconsequential. It is not much of anything at all. Not even "nothing" like Forces is, where it fails to evoke the emotions it intends to invoke, but genuinely nothing, as it does not intend to invoke emotion at all.

    The only idea it conveys--nostalgia--is crippled by the sheer lack of interaction or even acknowledgement of the premise after, funnily enough, that Chemical Plant scene. Most lines after that are themselves exposition (*Chaos Emerald appears* "Dude, theres the emerald!"), references (*gasp*), or jokes based in meta humor in rather straightforward ways (like Sonic joking about how the franchise is old and they've been beating Eggman a lot). Nostalgia is otherwise meaningfully carried by literally every other aspect of the game, which the remaster does not change.

    And frankly, "the game about nostalgia and references should not have spoken references specifically" is crazy to me. So Sonic and Tails can go to Chemical Plant ans you can play Chemical Plant levels to Chemical Plant music, but having them say "hey, this is Chemical Plant", that's too far? When is it ever okay, then, to reference things in Sonic?

    "But what if they did it to Adventure 2" Adventure 2 has an actual story. Adventure 2 is extremely deliberate in its dialogue and actions. The appeal of an Adventure 2 remaster or remake is specifically seeing those moments faithfully recreated and Sega knows this.

    Nobody, before they knew it was changed, cared about the purple water joke.

    If you don't like the changes, that's completely fine. I like the changes, though they're awkwardly implemented and presenting. The writing itself is fine. We lose a sensible chuckle and got reasonable exposition. Neither is super interesting. But I specifically wanted things like this and I'm happy overall.

    There's only like two moments in the entire game I hope aren't changed, and even if they are... oh well.

    But despite what else has been leaked, this discourse has naturally overtaken all discussion of the spoilers. It's funny, because it's likely only because it's the only real controversial thing the game has done since it's announcement.

    I think they edited their comment, but a user blamed Ian Flynn for the rewrites as if he has the power to veto Sega and do things like that, I would say that's being worked up.
     
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  19. Chimpo

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    One person is not the majority though.
     
  20. Sneasy

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    It's not but it did set the tone for the thread, obviously.

    I would like to say they seem to genuinely like Generations' original story, so I get the reaction. Blaming Flynn is wrong but they are right to be upset that it was changed and the original story will not be shown to new fans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2024