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"Sonic's shitty friends"

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Dark Sonic, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. Hybrid Project Alpha

    Hybrid Project Alpha

    It's what's for dinner Oldbie
    Douglas, NB
    Getting a life
    I always liked having all kinds of different moves and play styles and I'm really sad Sega decided to side with the "Sonic only" crowd for the past few years
  2. I don't actually mind 9 out of 10 of Sonic's shitty friends. I know that is a bit of a taboo.

    I do think the trouble is that they kept on adding new playable characters when they didn't get Sonic 100% right. And ever since the Sonic 2K6 clusterfuck, I do think they did do the right thing by making the franchise "Sonic only" again. Although I would have little cameos of other characters in Unleashed/Colours (Kinda like the Colours DS/Generations system of everyone basically saying "hi") While maybe thinking about slowly adding other playable characters (I mean hell Shadow and Blaze would be easy to put in the current modern Sonic)

    I really do miss playing as Knuckles in games though. In my mind Knuckles (Possibly Rouge and Espio too) could work in a big 3D platformer/freeroamer/sandbox game now.
  3. Kogen


    Derp Misfit
    Bouvet Island
    Last Party on the Moon
    For me I am not against other characters at all, I just hate childish ones, be it Cream the Rabbit for 3 year old girls or Silver the Hedgehog for 12 year old DBZ fans.

    Make it sensible and focus on the main established cast, then everything will be fine.

    I am not sure why people disregard quality when judging something new. New is good if the new content is good and appropriate. Pretty basic.
  4. TheInvisibleSun


    Buffalo, NY, USA
    The Water
    Wouldn't it take more development time to make 18 individual character specific stages, set of objects, set of enemies and separate art (considering there are 3 characters), than to just make 6 highly versatile, and detailed stages that would accommodate different characters' abilities in its geometry and design? I would definitely want the latter (regardless of how long it would take). I greatly valued stages like Speed Highway, Red Mountain and Sky Deck, because both Sonic, Tails and Knuckles had different ways of navigating each stage. At Dawn specifically, had a ridiculous amount of ways one could reach Sonic's goal; as Sonic you could go by street, or by the roof tops and building walls if you were good enough, and as Knuckles you could climb around and explore the place (though I wish that his stages had an actual end goal). At certain points in Tails' version of Speed Highway, I felt a very different experience than with Sonic, because there were super-platformy sections that utilized his flight ability (flight rings notwithstanding), yet I knew visually that I was still in Speed Highway. Red Mountain did this well by having places that Sonic could run freely, while still giving Knuckles much room to go anywhere he could glide or climb; those two components coexisted beautifully within one stage. I can also imagine that it would have been fun to fly around and take shortcuts in the stage as Tails, as there was much room for his flight as well. The concept of Sonic's stages being longer (or his 'goal' being further into the stage, in some cases) should also be carried over, to make up for Sonic's now ridiculous speed difference over most characters. This way, the Tails and Knux stages would be kept from being boring and too drawn out.

    Also, Viewtiful Joe had 4 (or 5 on PS2) playable characters in the original, and it was never frustrating (perhaps just a bit more difficult) going through the game as anyone other than Joe, because every other character's gameplay was basically Joe's (even down to the stages and their order), but with some slightly different moves and stats/abilities. This is a very possible thing to do if done correctly, and based on your account of the game (I have never played it), Super Meat Boy apparently did it wrong.
  5. nullaccnt


    I can understand where the "Sonic's shitty friends" expression arises from, and rightfully so; the extensive cast of characters in the franchise was abused multiple times for the sake of wider audience appeal and ultimately larger sales. However, like many others, I wouldn't mind the use of the new characters as long as the story calls for it and is enhanced by their presence. The best example of this yet (while not containing characters beyond the original four,) is Sonic Unleashed.

    Simply Tails and Amy, not even Knuckles was used, as his presence would have seemed shoehorned in at best, like it has been in recent titles. No extra characters showed up to "help" Sonic because he didn't need any help. Sure, reasons could have been fabricated for Knuckles or Shadow to show up, but looking at how Sonic Unleashed's story worked as a finished product, their presence would have probably only served to take screen time and importance away from Sonic and his struggle with becoming a werehog as well as his friendship with Chip, the new character. That's probably also why, while Tails and Amy were present, their interaction and participation in the larger percentage of the game's events was downplayed. Sonic and Chip's friendship was allowed to take center stage.

    TLDR; Any number of Sonic's extensive cast of characters in a game with specific relevance and importance = good. A large supporting cast to busy-up the screen and pad a lacking story = bad.
  6. FinalBeyond


    Absolutely agreed with the above. I don't particularly want to see Knuckles if he isn't relevant to the plot. If they can figure out an excellent plot that takes his character and his role in the series (as in, 'guardian of Angel Island and the Master Emerald' rather than 'deep voiced friend of Sonic') into account, then fine, but sticking him in as playable and just saying 'emerald's broken!' to shoehorn him in because he was there in the 90s seems rather futile. Same with any other character. If they really do add to the game/plotline by their presence, then go ahead. I'd happily see a return from Silver in the main series if it made sense for him to be there.
  7. muteKi


    Fuck it Member
    It's hard for me to think of the Sonic cast as extensive when the problem was that there were only about 15 or so characters overall who got shoehorned into everything irrespective of whether or not it might conflict with their characterization or add much to the game (hi, Knuckles in Sonic Heroes and 2006 and the Advance games and whatnot!).

    If anything the problem was the cast wasn't diverse enough, so that there was some actual variety and not those same 12 guys we saw the previous game anyway and haven't been developed as characters since then. And of course that they didn't play much different than sonic and they had to be playable.
  8. Well, to be fair on the Sonic Advance front at least 1 and 3 had places from Angel Island, so we know it was threatened. 2 is kinda iffy, I'd say Sky Canyon is probably Angel Island.
  9. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Working on my art!
    I don't give a rats ass how Knuckles is involved in the plot. Make him an unlockable character or something. If he's fun to play as then by all means I say allow him to be in the game.
  10. Puto


    Shin'ichi Kudō, detective. Tech Member
    Portugal, Oeiras
    Part of Team Megamix, but haven't done any actual work in ages.
    I don't recall "Knuckles in Sonic 2" having any plot reason for existing, yet I don't see anyone complaining about THAT.
  11. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Working on my art!
    No, but I do recall someone complaining about Tails being put in Sonic CD 2011 for some odd reason.
  12. MastaSys


    I recall someone complaining stuff without any sensible reason.
    If it's fun, then use it, plot be damned.
  13. LockOnTommy11


    Well obviously the plot has to be important- we can't just have a shitfest of different scenarios all randomly jumped to- that would be crap. However, if they just let characters be playable out of story that would be fine, like Tails in Sonic 2 or 3, and Knuckles in Sonic 2, and the most of the cast of Sonic Advance's games.
  14. Burnt Ash

    Burnt Ash

    Sonic + faceground = Member
    I think Sonic CD proved that characters can and should be playable even if they're not involved in the plot. And to be honest, Dark Sonic said it perfectly. It's not necessarily the characters that people hate, it's the alternate gameplay styles of the other characters that made people dislike them. But still, it's been six years. I think it may be time to take the next step and bring back those other characters, and improve upon then from what Sonic 06 left us.
  15. Ell678


    Am I Annoying You? Member
    Barrow, England
    Sonic Incursion
    The problem is, throwing all the characters into a Sonic game is certainly possible but if it is a modern game you need to justify their existence and make it good. Sonic 06 did a shit job of that. Amy just seems to be there, Knuckles is a delivery boy who then decides to tag along and...Tails???

    I don't give a fuck if the character roster in the next game is as obscure as Silver, Espio, Marine and Sonic. As long as there is a good reason for them being there and the gameplay is good.
  16. OSM


    retro is for losers! Member
    Doing absolutely nothing

    You know I do miss Tails tagging along with Sonic in levels, kind of weird they haven't figured out a way to make Tails work with the new engine yet.
  17. I don't think you need to justify their appearance in a game if they are playable. If they are appearing in the story then yeah. But you could have a "Free mode" where you played as other characters.
  18. Ayu Tsukimiya

    Ayu Tsukimiya

    UGUU~ Member
    The shitty friends don't need to be much different from Sonic. Tails is slightly slower and can fly for a limited amount of time, Knuckles is slightly slower than Tails and can punch, climb and dig. Amy could be as fast as Tails and do cool shit with her hammer along with bashing shit with it.
  19. E-122-Psi


    I'm mixed to this as I believe that, while there should maybe be some consistant mechanics between the cast, there should at least be some plausible gameplay differences to make their useage worthwhile. It's just finding a suiting balance so that it doesn't drift too far away, and of course, finding mechanics that don't suck.

    I think a problem with 2006's shoehorning was not only the number of superfluous characters, but that you HAD to play as them all, you constantly switched between at least four characters, often midway through a level, no matter what story you chose. At this point the extra characters don't become an extra priveledge but a neccessity you must play as whether you want them or not, often breaking gameplay and not always suiting to particular player's preferences. I think that this played into a large reason as to why Sonic's friends started to become unpopular. Knuckles and Tails were big parts of their respective debut titles but at least they weren't forced in front of your face and you had the choice to try them out. The same can't be said for Shadow, Silver or Rouge.
  20. Rosie


    aka Rosie Member
    While I would like the option of playing as a select few different characters providing their gameplay has something a little different to offer, or they're just a skin that's available when you beat the game, I think they should sort out Sonic first and work out from there. Personally, I'd like to see a Sonic where you gain the boost after various levels of speed (a bit like the All Stars Racing drift boost but when going forward), where only when running at full pelt can you destroy enemies while running, otherwise you have to roll into them as you go past.