Sonic's Gameplay Style Debate: Adventure vs. Generations

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by XD375, Sep 15, 2012.

Which gameplay style is best?

  1. Adventure series

    16.7%
  2. Generations

    48.5%
  3. Both styles are equally crap - Sonic still hasn't found his footing in 3D

    4.5%
  4. Both styles are equally good

    30.3%
  1. So, I was on a non-Sonic forum, where the Ryan Drummond thing was being discussed. There was a poster that claimed true hardcore Sonic fans hate everything after Adventure 2. Since this is somewhat of a common occurrence on non-Sonic forums, I decided I'd take a poll here, since this forum is probably the most "hardcore" when it comes to gameplay styles. I also wanted to note that said poster hasn't actually played Unleashed or anything after it.

    This has me curious about what you "hardcore" fans actually think.

    I personally like the first Adventure's Sonic stages. There are still elements of Sonic design (which wouldn't last much longer), you still had the ability to roll, and there was platforming everywhere. Sonic's movement wasn't as fine-tuned as it was in Adventure 2, but I feel Adventure 2 was the game that lost it with everything else. In my opinion, Since Adventure's Sonic feels like a good first attempt, and it's a shame it went all downhill from there. Sonic Team USA took over development duties with Adventure 2, Heroes, and Shadow, and each game felt worse than the last. They disbanded in 2008 after NiGHTS for Wii, and that was most likely for the best.

    Sonic Unleashed was the first real step in the right direction, but it still had a long way to go and I'd still rather play the first Adventure's stages. Colors was mostly 2D platforming, so I'll skip that one.

    Sonic Generations' modern gameplay is not accurate to the Genesis games. It doesn't have much emphasis on momentum, if any at all. But it was finally a blast to play. It finally had levels filled with platforming and alternate paths to explore. The boost really only did you good at the first couple of levels or so, and you'd be punished for using it almost anywhere else. I'm not sure how it will age and I'm sure it will be outclassed soon if SEGA keeps going in this direction, but for now I'm going to have to say Generations' gameplay is the best just for the fun factor alone.
     
  2. Dario FF

    Dario FF

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  3. Guess Who

    Guess Who

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    Anyone who believes Adventure 2 is great and Generations is crap needs their head checked, end of story. Literally every single thing about Generations is a vast improvement.
     
  4. Sparks

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    I'd have to say I prefer Generations gameplay over Adventure 2. In the Adventure games I'd now and then find Sonic going ways I didn't want him going, when I'd be doing something as simple as holding forward (notably falling off the level in Green Forest). The quick step pretty much eliminates this problem in pretty much any area designed around running fast. It also helps that in Unleashed, Colors, and Generations the levels are designed around the engine and controls of the games much better.
     
  5. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    Generations built upon and improved everywhere its predecessors failed. So is the best even in question?
     
  6. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    Generations is a better game than any 3D Sonic game that came before it. That much goes without questioning. But I prefer the gameplay style offered by SA1, SA2 and 06, where the stages involved 3D areas that that were more than just pathways. And there was a lot more variation in the pacing of things. I think back to stages like Lost World and Sky Deck, and realise how much I miss that type of gameplay. Generations improved upon Unleashed far more than I thought possible (and I liked Unleashed). I just don't like the boost driven gameplay as much as what came before, even if they are objectively worse. Heck, I wouldn't mind a middle ground at all.
     
  7. Palas

    Palas

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    I think there is no doubt that Generations is the superior game. However, I believe it's still far from a complete experience - the level design, while improved, was only fully developed in the Classic Sonic stages. There is no way we can judge a few aspects, like harmony among the levels (there is none, but it's an anniversary title blablalbal), and the boost is never going not to make me think how shitty an ability it is.

    But there's more~!

    I like Sonic Adventure's concept (Not Adventure 2. Adventure 2 in Unleashed/Colors/Generations without 2D and without improvement). The more open spaces appeal to me, as I think the level should be like an amusement park. You make a path out of an environment, not the corridor shit we've had ever since. That's not to say Sonic Adventure wasn't automated, but the concept is there.

    You know what other game has that principle for an environment instead of a path? Yeah, Sonic 3D Blast. It's awfully overlooked as understructure material, but it is the best 3D game there is in terms of level design that offers possibilities for non-linearity and sense of freedom (TOO BAD the non-linearity there was forced and with the worst of the excuses)..
     
  8. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    At low speed, Generations controls much like Adventure does anyway so I'd say Generations.
     
  9. Doppelgengar

    Doppelgengar

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    I prefer the Adventure style gameplay over the current style. I'm not saying the modern gameplay is bad by any means, I just don't like how much focus is placed on boosting. Obviously you can play without boosting the entire time, but when the levels are designed with boosting in mind, it just doesn't make sense not to use it. I'm actually gonna go out on a limb here and say that I think Sonic 06 had the right idea with the mach speed sections. You take Adventure style gameplay, throw some modern style boost sections in each level, and I think you have a winning combo. And for the love of god, give us back the spindash.
     
  10. Lobotomy

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    Generations is an infinite improvement over the Adventure series in every conceivable way. The only gripe I have about it is the fact that there really isn't any challenge beyond the level design. There's no use for standard Badniks anymore, because boost just plows right through them without any thought, and while it's been improved drastically as of Generations, the linearity of the levels provides for fewer environmental obstacles. I'm working on another mod for Generations that should provide some challenge, while retaining the gameplay Unleashed-Generations gameplay is known for. Even though I'm taking on (yet another) project, it's kind of an empty gesture because that isn't how the game is made. That's why I want Sonic Team to R&D the hell out of the next iteration of the series to provide challenge and restore use to obstacles.
     
  11. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

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    Generations for me. It's not quite perfect yet, but dang, Modern Seaside Hill is everything you could expect a modern Sonic to be, no doubt. I just want them to tighten up the low-speed maneuvering and make the jump a liiiiitle less stiff. If the did, even if there are other things I would prefer, I would still be content with what it had.
     
  12. Afti

    Afti

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    Generations gameplay bears little resemblance to the classic titles - but, unlike all of the other 3D Sonic paradigms, it's genuinely fun in its own right. Unleashed day stages/Generations modern stages (and, to a lesser extent, Colors) are incredibly polished twitch action-platformers, in which the difficulty comes largely from the reflexes needed to function at the speeds they're throwing at you. It's pretty much the bastard offspring of a platformer and F-Zero. Generations does this best, because it blends some alternate paths back into that gameplay type - but, at the core, the gameplay is largely based around dodging obstacles at immense speeds. An obstacle course, intended to be speed-run. This is much better than the Adventure games; Adventure 1 was a serviceable but deeply flawed 3D platformer, and Adventure 2 is as hyper-linear as Unleashed but doesn't have nearly the same mechanical depth that makes the stages enjoyable in spite of their linearity.

    To be honest, I think the best thing that could happen with this gameplay type would be to go for more, shorter stages with strict time limits; the player can seldom afford to slow down and take it easy. Constant pressure; you need to hone your reflexes to the point where you can take a finicky platforming section at full boost.
     
  13. Skyler

    Skyler

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    Tell him he has no idea what he's talking about.
     
  14. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    I prefer Adventure.
    Ignoring the obvious control faults, there was just something much more genuine about it. A lot less gimmicky hooks and hand holding. Probably the worst thing to happen is the homing attack reticle; yes, that. That stupid little thing marks the end of organic movement, and the beginning of complete on rails gaming, which is where we're very close to. I enjoyed the ridiculous freedoms to fail in Adventure 1 and 2. If I wanted to, I could throw myself off an edge, or play around the collision of the environment, even if most things were just slippery. Even the scripted loops and things still had fragments of natural movement in them. Everything in Unleashed and up can be visualized as: pathway, solid walls on both sides, and occasional flat platforms. Its become so program guided they don't even have 3d underwater sections anymore. At least Adventure had that much. The change from spindash to boost is another landmark in the transformation from natural to on-rails gameplay. The spindash was guide-able and required the player's attention and even finesse. The boost has very little of that. Its designed to force you back onto the course for godsakes.

    The differences are significant, and while the Adventure games had terribly unpolished mechanics, they were on the right track. Movement and interaction still felt organic and less imposed upon by a relentless program guiding my every move. If they wanted to, they could have had something resembling an open world level. That seems much less likely to be possible in the new engine.
     
  15. Dark Sonic

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    Oh Generations in a heart beat. Sure, Adventure 1 may have had some open spaces, but it was still pretty dull. Also SA2 was 'run in a straight line, the game'. Generations is nothing like classic Sonic but it doesn't try to be, I don't give a rats ass that modern Sonic has classic's momentum, the reflex boost gameplay is what I've come to expect from Sonic, not to mention that each game the style has been in as only improved on its predecessor. Sure, there are some things I miss, like shields, but modern Sonic is an entirely different beast. I love classic and modern Sonic, but adventure Sonic seems to be Sonic with an identity crisis that just doesn't pull off either classic or modern well, but wants to do both.

    The modern gameplay has helped restore Sonic in my eyes, and Unleashed, colors, and Generations are now some of my favorite Sonic games, right up there with Sonic 3K, Sonic 2, and Sonic CD. More then I can say for SA1 or 2.
     
  16. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy

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    I'm not sure you quite appreciate why the reticle is there. You can aim it like a crosshair to select individual enemies out of a crowd in Generations. What could possibly be bad about having more control over where you're going?



    Now saying stuff like this is telling me that you probably haven't played Generations past Green Hill Zone. "Scripted Loops" in Generations Modern ARE natural movement. It's literally a 2D section with a different camera. You can exit and move around the loop however you please. Try to do that in Adventure, you'll be forced into moving full speed on a spline path without any say in the matter. Technically Adventure can also be visualized as pathway, solid walls on both sides, and the occasional platform. Sure, it wasn't executed well in Unleashed, but go to Chemical Plant, Sky Sanctuary, Seaside Hill, Rooftop Run, Crisis City and Planet Wisp. They're larger stages than Adventure with more paths, more/better platforming, and in a few cases, are just as open as Adventure stages.

    Sure is, I mean, look at how much he's strictly adhering to the path here.

     
  17. Dario FF

    Dario FF

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    3D Underwater sections work just fine in Generations. It's just that they didn't use it in the level design.

    No, it's not coded into the mechanic. Without the triggers in the level to guide Sonic from running into walls, it does what it's supposed to: give you speed in a straight line, and it doesn't make you bounce all over the place. Sonic guides himself along the path at high speed without boosting as well because of the dash mode trigger.

    The dash mode helps you steer at high speed. If you go slow, it doesn't affect you at all. Which is a good trade-off, because nobody expects you to move your analog-stick perfectly at such high speeds.

    EDIT: I didn't really want to throw in much discussion, since the video I replied with is exactly what I think. So refer to that if you're interested. :v:
     
  18. ashthedragon

    ashthedragon

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    I prefeer Adventure very much over Unleashed/colors/generations style. It's more complex to master than current's style, there are little rewards to good skilled players and not BOOST TO WIN. Also, it's really 3D, not " a few seconds in flashy linear 3D and the rest is blocky 2D". Beacuse it's not even a good 2D.
     
  19. BigTheCat

    BigTheCat

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    I think it's funny that people still post "BOOST TO WIN"

    And I still don't understand why people are so obsessed over the games not being exactly the same as the classics. They needed a change when they got to 3D, and now they finally got something really worth while with the modern gameplay, people are still upset that it's not 1-1 with the classics. It's supposed to be different. Mario in 3D is completely different to the classic 2D mario's, and no one complains. I swear I wonder if this argument would still be going on if they went straight from the classic gameplay to the boost style gameplay. It's different, but in a bad way? I don't think so.

    And boost is essentially a better spindash. It does exactly what the spindash wants to accomplish, only better. A lot of you people would go on and say it's overpowered, and maybe it is, but it's been toned down since unleashed. And I love an overpowered sonic.

    Maybe I'm just crazy though.
     
  20. Modern mechanics for Sonic seen in recent games are definitely superior to the Adventure era in every way, but just because they are doesn't mean I automatically consider the Adventure gameplay without potential. That could be because I want to see a Sonic game more catered around the feeling of adventure and atmosphere rather than full-blown speed and reflex testing all the time. Variety's good for Sonic as long as it takes from the same fundamentals, right? It's why I think a mixture of SA1 and Generations (in terms of level design and pacing) would be nice.