Sonic's Freedom Team

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by minichapman, Sep 5, 2010.

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  1. Phos

    Phos

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->SatAM [...] excellent voice cast<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Allow me to paraphrase what I hear every time Sally said anything:

    "uuuuhhh aaaahhh *something* uuuuhh aaahhh"

    For some reason they included these deep breaths before and after every one of Sally's lines, which is even more of a problem when you recall that Sally has perhaps has even more lines than Sonic. It also makes it kinda hard to follow what's going on, it's like listening to someone who uses a lot of filler words.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sonic X and the Sonic OVA, which many consider to be much more faithful to the game series, don't have art design anywhere near the same level of creativity or surrealism of the games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    A lot of the early game's surrealism was based on very early CGI, which doesn't translate well when you start increasing its resolution. They started straying away from it as early as Sonic 3 to great effect, I used to have a hard time believing that Sonic 2 and 3 were on the same console. There's a certain element of less abstract cubism present in Sonic 3.

    Plus the OVA had actual Badniks that go a long way to getting the look right, SatAM doesn't have anything comparable.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heck, watch the intro, Mobitropolis looks more like a Sonic zone than anything from Sonic Rush.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And we see it for about one second.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->SoJ sure didn't have a fucking clue<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    SoJ didn't, but Sonic Team itself had a pretty clear idea in mind. They didn't create an entire world, but they knew what kind of place Sonic's world was, and it's not really like SatAM fares better in this respect, there seems to be two places in the show.
     
  2. SomeSortOfRobot

    SomeSortOfRobot

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    <!--quoteo(post=501974:date=Sep 6 2010, 02:55 PM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Sep 6 2010, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=501974">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Something tells me in this thread that most people don't understand how DiC was ran.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Educate us, teach.
     
  3. Mr. Pictures

    Mr. Pictures

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->SoJ didn't, but Sonic Team itself had a pretty clear idea in mind. They didn't create an entire world, but they knew what kind of place Sonic's world was, and it's not really like SatAM fares better in this respect, there seems to be two places in the show.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wait, didn't the SatAM crew steal from Blade Runner and Dune? It seems they ignored the Sonic game environments altogether.
     
  4. Phos

    Phos

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    "Stealing from Blade Runner and Dune" has become synonymous with "writing science fiction".
     
  5. 0r4ng3

    0r4ng3

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    <!--quoteo(post=502055:date=Sep 6 2010, 11:53 PM:name=quarterman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (quarterman @ Sep 6 2010, 11:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502055">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=502052:date=Sep 6 2010, 03:48 PM:name=dsrb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dsrb @ Sep 6 2010, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502052">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that's what everyone presumes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Perhaps, but I meant that to those who complain about the cartoons "not being Sonic". It is Sonic, just a different one. Okay, I'm done making myself look like an ass, though I will say that I'm glad that we didn't get that early SATAM. It doesn't look very good.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not a likely story. These complaints aren't as frivolous as you might think.

    Sonic as a character is known for his looks and abilities, regardless of whatever backstory in whenever region you can think of. In SatAM it's just looks, because his techniques are rarely the matching point. If you remove Sonic entirely, the story and setting of SatAM are left almost intact. Any other generic anthro on his place would get the job done, super powers or not. Sonic is also the sole hero in most classic adventures, yet in SatAM he shares the status, sometimes he's even upstaged, by an unknown character no less.

    Another thing that was consistent in the classics was the atypical scenery, but there's nothing uncommon in SatAM. Scrap Brain Zone, probably one of the blander zones in the classics, manages to have more charm than the Great Forest. This is ironic, considering there are so many fans that defend Mobius as an excuse to have unusual scenery, yet the Great Forest is as generic as every Earth forest featured in most cartoons. It's no Mushroom Hill Zone, heck it's not even Angel Island Zone.

    Then there's the villain. Eggman tends to defy Sonic on his own, disregarding the odd moments he sends Metal/Mecha Sonic or Knuckles to create havoc instead. In SatAM, Sonic and the Freedom Fighters deal with Snively instead most of the time. If that's not enough, they had to change Robotnik's design to fit into the show. The lesser minions are either standard grey robots or robotized grey anthros who are conscious of their fate but can never break free. All the Badniks are ridiculous looking robots in all the colours of the rainbow, which pop out and release Sonic's friends without further complications.

    Just look at the classics and at the show, compare them without the nostalgia filter, and find one thing that they both share, besides some irrelevant names or designs. Everything else is different and there's no common ground. I'm not familiar with SatAM's production nor am I interested, but the result gives the impression that the writers had an unrelated story cooked up already, and tacked Sonic on it when they were asked to make up a more serious Sonic cartoon compared to AOSTH. This is what most think when they point out SatAM is not Sonic. Fans of SatAM can like the change all they want, that's not the point, but saying these complaints are flawed isn't very accurate. These have nothing to do with rabid Japanese fans who make a fuss over Eggman VS Robotnik. Overplaying all of these is quite unfair, even to the show itself.
     
  6. Mr. Pictures

    Mr. Pictures

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    <!--quoteo(post=502107:date=Sep 6 2010, 09:23 PM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Sep 6 2010, 09:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502107">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Stealing from Blade Runner and Dune" has become synonymous with "writing science fiction".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Then that's pretty sad.
     
  7. Mercury

    Mercury

    His Name Is Sonic Tech Member
    I've seen Blade Runner. To say that SatAM is ripping it off in any way is really stretching. So anything with robots and a dirty polluted city is suddenly Blade Runner? Puh-lease.

    <!--quoteo(post=502070:date=Sep 6 2010, 11:32 PM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Sep 6 2010, 11:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502070">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->SoJ sure didn't have a fucking clue<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    SoJ didn't, but Sonic Team itself had a pretty clear idea in mind.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes, so clear that they ended up borrowing characters from that stupid Japanese "Nicky" comic. The classic Sonic "canon" in Japan was either non-existant or flat-out brainless. There's a good reason why Sonic was more popular than Mickey Mouse in America, but lost out to Bonk in Japan.

    I also don't have any patience for the "you could replace Sonic with any generic anthro in SatAM and it would be the same" argument. <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Sally_Acorn_in_Sonic_the_Hedgehog" target="_blank">You could make Sonic 1 all about some other furry</a>, too - does that mean it's not "really Sonic"?
     
  8. Vaiyt

    Vaiyt

    Oglio p'ru ├žeu Member
    Personally, I loathe Sonic X's aesthetic approach. It felt immensely bland to me. Mascot falls on real-world boy's lap. They have amazing adventures in nondescript real world places. Mega yawn.
     
  9. Mr. Pictures

    Mr. Pictures

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've seen Blade Runner. To say that SatAM is ripping it off in any way is really stretching. So anything with robots and a dirty polluted city is suddenly Blade Runner? Puh-lease.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I still find Robotropolis as something taken from Blade Runner, with its dystopian and mechanical theme. SatAM Robotnik is most definitely taken from Dune's Baron Harkonnen, who also happens to have an evil nephew.

    I suppose Sonic is a pretty plain character that is easily interchangeable when it comes right down to it.
     
  10. 0r4ng3

    0r4ng3

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    <!--quoteo(post=502194:date=Sep 7 2010, 07:55 AM:name=Mercury)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mercury @ Sep 7 2010, 07:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502194">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also don't have any patience for the "you could replace Sonic with any generic anthro in SatAM and it would be the same" argument. <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Sally_Acorn_in_Sonic_the_Hedgehog" target="_blank">You could make Sonic 1 all about some other furry</a>, too - does that mean it's not "really Sonic"?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What I said isn't a personal attack. Maybe you should read it again.

    I don't understand why you're linking Sally in Sonic 1 as a legitimate reason as to why the complaints are petty. The setting and the enemies are still the same, and that is obviously the Sonic world from the classics. I said nothing in SatAM resembles that. Is there?

    Then the character, who neither looks the same nor has the same move set. Sally has neither the spinning ability nor can she use momentum basic moves for her advantage. The game clearly doesn't play like Sonic 1 is supposed to play. This isn't even the case of Tails or Knuckles, her move set is completely different from the basic character behaviour of the three and has no common ground (I mean they all jump but that's it). I doubt anyone on Retro would say the way the game is supposed to play is not important in Sonic game, when there's circle jerking about uncurling in the Sonic 4 thread. So I really can't see the point, if there was ever one, in linking into that hack.

    edit: about his role on the show, there is no role. Taking him out won't leave the story or the cast weakened, which probably can be said for Underground as well. Compare it to AOSTH, Sonic X or the OVA. Sonic as a character, his abilities, his antagonisms and friendships are central to the plot. Without Sonic there would be no show. This is not the case for SatAM (maybe even Underground), where Sonic isn't that central to the story.
     
  11. Clutch

    Clutch

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    <!--quoteo(post=502199:date=Sep 7 2010, 03:33 AM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Sep 7 2010, 03:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502199">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've seen Blade Runner. To say that SatAM is ripping it off in any way is really stretching. So anything with robots and a dirty polluted city is suddenly Blade Runner? Puh-lease.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I still find Robotropolis as something taken from Blade Runner, with its dystopian and mechanical theme.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CyberPunk" target="_blank">High-tech dystopias aren't exclusive to the two.</a>
     
  12. SomeSortOfRobot

    SomeSortOfRobot

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    <!--quoteo(post=502194:date=Sep 7 2010, 01:55 AM:name=Mercury)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mercury @ Sep 7 2010, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502194">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also don't have any patience for the "you could replace Sonic with any generic anthro in SatAM and it would be the same" argument. <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Sally_Acorn_in_Sonic_the_Hedgehog" target="_blank">You could make Sonic 1 all about some other furry</a>, too - does that mean it's not "really Sonic"?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, you can put Tom Servo in Mega Man 3, but it would still be Mega Man 3.

    Stories like this are different, though. For the most part, the protagonist is pretty much the focus of the story, usually the biggest influence in the world around them in some way. So much so, that it would completely change the general structure of the story if they were cut out or changed. In the case of SatAM, however, Sonic leaves so little an impression that he and Tails could be cut out of the story completely, and it wouldn't affect ANYTHING about it. Sure, Uncle Chuck would have to be changed, but that's about the only real change.
     
  13. Mr. Pictures

    Mr. Pictures

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    <!--quoteo(post=502270:date=Sep 7 2010, 10:27 AM:name=Clutch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clutch @ Sep 7 2010, 10:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502270">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=502199:date=Sep 7 2010, 03:33 AM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Sep 7 2010, 03:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502199">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've seen Blade Runner. To say that SatAM is ripping it off in any way is really stretching. So anything with robots and a dirty polluted city is suddenly Blade Runner? Puh-lease.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I still find Robotropolis as something taken from Blade Runner, with its dystopian and mechanical theme.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CyberPunk" target="_blank">High-tech dystopias aren't exclusive to the two.</a>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Oh I'm sure Blade Runner wasn't the only film stolen from.
     
  14. Phos

    Phos

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, so clear that they ended up borrowing characters from that stupid Japanese "Nicky" comic. The classic Sonic "canon" in Japan was either non-existant or flat-out brainless. There's a good reason why Sonic was more popular than Mickey Mouse in America, but lost out to Bonk in Japan.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I was referring primarily to the STI team in America (This was back when Sonic Team actually ment something, mind). There were clean intentions that never came to fruition to include more story in Sonic 2, such as Hidden Palace Zone's relationship with Super Sonic, and then Sonic 3 had most of its story in game.

    And Sally in Sonic 1 is just that, Sally shoehorned into Sonic 1. She is unable to interact with the environment as intended. Knothole (Is that a play on of "not whole"?) and Mobotroposlis don't exist in this game (It takes place on South Island and Robotnik's base of opperations is Scrap Brain Zone), and the Robotnik she's fighting isn't the one from the show. She is also staging a singlehanded direct assault upon Robotnik rather than her usual guerrilla tactics, which ties back into how Sonic's presence isn't necessary for SatAM to exists essentially unchanged.

    In SatAM, Sonic uses the same guerrilla tactics as the rest of the freedom fighters, his super speed usually going unused (due to the need for stealth) until they need to make an escape or deal with an unexpected situation. There is even an episode where Sonic is stripped of his super speed powers, and it doesn't alter his tactics beyond needing a more subtle means of escape. The other freedom fighters are able to escape just fine without needing super speed.
     
  15. Clutch

    Clutch

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    <!--quoteo(post=502303:date=Sep 7 2010, 01:27 PM:name=SomeSortOfRobot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SomeSortOfRobot @ Sep 7 2010, 01:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502303">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you can put Tom Servo in Mega Man 3, but it would still be Mega Man 3.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I actually want to see this now.
     
  16. Crappy Blue

    Crappy Blue

    Knuckles' Chaotix is a perfect game with no flaws Member
    <!--quoteo(post=502483:date=Sep 7 2010, 06:18 PM:name=Clutch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clutch @ Sep 7 2010, 06:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502483">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=502303:date=Sep 7 2010, 01:27 PM:name=SomeSortOfRobot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SomeSortOfRobot @ Sep 7 2010, 01:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=502303">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you can put Tom Servo in Mega Man 3, but it would still be Mega Man 3.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I actually want to see this now.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href="http://www.I-mockery.com/romhacks/tom-servo/" target="_blank">Here you go.</a>
     
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