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Sonic's Attitude in Sonic the Comic

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Adamis, Jul 18, 2022.

  1. Adamis

    Adamis

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    MOD EDIT: This discussion stems from the Sonic and IDW thread. I wanted to give this specific topic its own thread for focus, context leading to this discussion is from here: https://forums.sonicretro.org/index...w-comics-more-than-archie.41142/#post-1015349

    Have you read the comic or just random pages from Tumblr ? Because that's the impression you give me ?

    Sonic learns from his mistakes and even mellows during the comic's run.

    I grew up with almost zero Sonic comic. We just had 6 issues of StC translated to French, hardly enough to get "emotionally attached to". We only had the games, AoStH and SatAm. I only got to discover both Archie and StC in early 2001 when I was able to buy lots of issues from Ebay. I was presented with, on one side a typical US hero stuck in love triangles and a set up so detached from the games I grew up with ; and on another side a less typical hero, always doing what he had to do to save the day, with the occasional joke, and a set up far closer to the games, plus lovely traditional artwork.

    And seriously, if people are shocked by StC!Sonic, I can't wait to see their reaction over Donald Duck, one of the most loved character on the planet.

    [​IMG]
    If you tell me that this page is "a product of its time", then StC is one too. Remember it's from a time where there was not one universal vision of Sonic and it was widely accepted. It's fine if you don't like the comic, or if you don't "understand" it. Just don't exaggerate the facts :)

    And let's not talk about how Scrooge McDuck treats his nephews most of the time...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2022
  2. It is a product of its time. Its not like I said Archie was much better, but I don't think Sonic being an asshole to his "friends" is any better in that regard. Both feel like they missed the point of the character.
     
  3. Adamis

    Adamis

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    I think I've provided enough examples of Sonic not being an "asshole to his friends". If you prefer to keep your scenario, you do you :)
     
  4. Aesculapius Piranha

    Aesculapius Piranha

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    The panels where Sonic is drawn like a Chirstmas Tree are pretty funny ngl. Ranks up there with some of the worse pannels of Archie.

    I have wanted to check out StC because it is remembered fondly by its fans, and my friends are talking about how great IDW has been and how their new character leading up to issue 50 is fun and a dig at Scourge. I lost interest in Archie way back when Penders was still on and a lot of what I have heard of Flynn just sounds like he was trying to clean up his mess and I was never really that interested since.
     
  5. Yea I don't see that as enough of justification. I never said he wasn't a hero or didn't care about his friends, but he's still an asshole towards them. Sorry I don't agree with you.
     
  6. MykonosFan

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    Split this out from the Archie and IDW thread where this was asked to stop. Now it may continue here.
     
  7. E-122-Psi

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    Really while they make a point Sonic isn't a TOTAL ass in STC, he definitely gets a bit obnoxious about it. I feel several other takes on Sonic sometimes have this likeability issue as well but I feel they tend to USUALLY have a greater sense of playfulness to alleviate it (besides odd cases like Satam Sonic with Antoine, who he hated enough to sincerely want to let get robotocized :P) though I tend to remember STC Sonic being more overwhelmingly bitter and vindictive.

    Actually Sonic might not even be the WORST example, he actually feels a bit bad for how the Chaotix treat Charmy (which is like a flanderized version for their games dynamic where Charmy is so annoying that they flat out HATE him).

    I think it might be a bad mixture of standard British 'gallows humour' and said region trying to mimic the whole 'radical jerk' archetype that was all the rage in this era. Snarky 'doesn't give a shit' type asshole that is 'cool' for it regardless. Us Brits are already criticised for having a flat out mean or overbearingly snide sense of humour at times, imagine trying to glamorise it.

    Comparing it to Donald Duck isn't the best example since Donald is less a 'hero' and more comical protagonist, a guy who is nearly always treated as an asshole and gets his comeuppance for it (also I feel like a gag as bleak as that kinda crosses into refuge in audacity). Sonic meanwhile, even at his worst, is a hero, the guy who usually is the one stopping the real bad guy and comes out on top in the end besides a few odd moments.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
  8. Blue Spikeball

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    It's like many of you have never heard of the jerk with a heart of gold archetype. It's a perfectly valid trope that covers many of the most popular and iconic characters ever. In fact, many of the official characterizations of the game Sonic characters fit the mold to different degrees.

    StC Sonic is a prime example. Nigel Kitching even stated that he's an ass to his friends because he cares about them but is terrible at expressing his feelings:
    To the person who said that Sonic never gets called out on it, that's simply not true. In this very example he got called out right away by Amy. Once he calmed down he apologized to Porker and became supportive of his decision for the rest of the series.

    But in most of the instances where he says mean things to his friends, they either snark back at him or ignore him -- as they know him and are fully aware that he never means the things he says. The only instance one of them was actually hurt by his words was the above example, and again, he apologized for it.

    Anyways. I wouldn't call StC Sonic the definitive interpretation of the character, but I'll say that I've always found him much more bearable than his characterization in many of the American adaptations (mainly SatAM and pre-Ian Archie) as a manchild braggart.

    And no, I didn't grow up with StC. The only Sonic media I had access to as a child (besides the games) was the DIC cartoons. I first read StC (along with Archie) many years later.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
  9. Adamis

    Adamis

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    Well they had to stay close to the official style at the time. That might also explain why they stuck with AoStH-style Tails and Robotnik.

    [​IMG]

    That's also why, later in the run, they drew Sonic with weird spikes as Sega asked them to draw Sonic as he appears on the European Sonic 3D boxart...
    I remember another fan, who was close to writer Nigel Kitching, explaining that they also got scans of the Chaotix characters concept-art from the JP manual to base their stories on.

    Except Donald Duck is a hero.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    As I said, we can also talk about Scrooge McDuck, known for treating his nephews like slaves, mistreating them, even threatening to throw them out of their own home, but he's still regarded as a hero.

    I can also talk about Astérix, who's a hero but with short-temper, has a tendency to argue with his best friend, far from a goody-two-shoes like Tintin.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Linkabel

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    So I mainly grew up with just game Sonic in Mexico. The only way to watch AoSTH was having the premium cable that had the Disney Channel (which we didn't) and it aired on public TV for a while like at 6 in the morning. But I only watched one episode and it was already ending. After that they never aired a Sonic episode ever again.

    So the first time I ever watched Sonic actually talking and a story being presented in a more traditional format was the OVA and Sonic Adventure when I moved to the USA. I then discovered the Archie comics a while after that.

    In 2001 I discovered STC and I gotta say that Sonic in it felt more natural or closer to the games to me than the Archie version.

    Like I could actually see OVA or SA1 Sonic having moments like that. It helped that the manuals up to the Adventure games always described Sonic being a jerk with a heart of gold so I really didn't see a problem with STC.

    I'm not denying his attitude is cranked up a bit from his usual attitude, but nothing really breaks or betrays his core personality.

    And like others have said, the stories do slap Sonic in the face to teach him a lesson and he does learn to be less rude to his friends and save the attitude for his enemies.
     
  11. E-122-Psi

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    Okay I'll narrow it down a little. Those characters are generally not heroes WHEN they act like total pricks.

    Donald is usually Paperink when someone is bullying HIM and screwing him over. When HE'S acting like a jerk he is often the butt monkey to his own vices. Scrooge McDuck I will argue varies from interpretation to interpretation, but generally the one that made him particularly popular was the animated incarnation, whose flaws were kept better moderated and most of the time he DID act like a tool had him being punished or learning from his mistakes (eg. firing all his workers for a robot, and then said robot going mad with power, or one episode he acts exceptionally stingy and tight fisted having him temporarily lose his fortune and spend a day in the life of the poor).

    I think the general problem people have with STC Sonic is that he was an in-universe jerk but repurcussions weren't that common. Very often his jerkassery would be justified since he was just THAT good at his job or he was surrounded by imbeciles. He was only occasionally humbled or put in his place and in fact most of the populace that didn't know him closely idolised him.

    I could make a similar argument that SatAm or Boom Sonic were reckless and narccissistic as their chief flaws, but a lot of the times this became overbearing he ended up making a fool of himself or getting captured and having to admit that his friends weren't so inferior after they bailed him out. The whole "actions have consequences" type approach.

    I feel like a character having their flaws actually treated as flaws can be a very vital element to making them likeable. In fact sometimes a character whose flaws are WAY broader than another's can be more sympathetic simply by virtue that they make them more fallible while another relatively less flawed character can slowly become more insufferable if they NEVER face repurcussions or even get a double standard. (I feel this is why Sally's ego is more insufferable than Sonic's in some SatAm/Archie stories for example, since while Sonic very often is called out or punished for being a total narccissist in those interpretations, most of the time the story doesn't even like acknowledging Sally is capable of being prideful, let alone punishing her for it, simply because it is far more nuanced than Sonic's). A character PAYING for being flawed is a key component.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
  12. Pengi

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    Stories, even children's stories, don't need to be so moralistic that every slight bit of bad behaviour is punished. STC's Sonic was intentionally written as a flawed hero. Sometimes his bravado would backfire, other times it wouldn't. Sometimes Sonic's thought balloons would contradict what he's saying aloud, showing another side to the character. If the reader can recognise that the character's flaws are flaws, then the story has done its job. Most kids are smart enough to pick up on it.
     
  13. Tell that to the people complaining about how much of an asshole Shadow is nowadays.
     
  14. E-122-Psi

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    I get that, I appreciate Sonic seldom getting anvilicious in morals, I guess it's just possible to have a flawed character that is still very likeable and kept from getting too out of control.

    I think it might be a 'depending on the writer' thing with STC Sonic, sometimes they try to make his curtness a complexity and give it nuance, while in other cases I think some writers make the same mistake as some adult swim ones and view 'mean' as inherently funny, basically making him the equivelent of "Jerkass Homer" or later Peter Griffin.

    Like there's that infamous scene where Sonic is challenged by a hedgehog (actually the shape shifting villain luring him into a trap) and Tails warns against it. Sonic goes something along the lines of "And that's because you're a gutless idiot who will never amount to anything!"

    Eh....okay. I mean we were all expecting Sonic to arrogantly brush him off in some dry witted way, but that wasn't really dry wit, or even mean wit, it was just.....mean. Mean in itself for nothing isn't automatically entertaining, and really can be just as bland a trait as a goody goody hero type.
     
  15. Look, I have no problem with flawed heroes who don't have the best attitudes, some of my favorite characters are like that in fiction. But those types of characters work mainly as secondary characters that are foils to the more morally upright main character. Why do you think Leonardo is the leader and not Raphael? Because as it turns out, having your protagonist, and consequently the character the audience is meant to relate the most with, be an asshole isn't fun to watch, even if its for justified reasons.

    And if they ARE an asshole, it's usually expected they grow out of it eventually.

    The only way having an asshole main character works is if, yes as @E-122-Psi points out, they kind of have to suffer for it.

    Yes, Jerk with a Heart of Gold is a thing that exists, but that's a very delicate balancing act to maintain for a main character and usually they lean more into the "heart of gold" aspect of it anyway.


    My issue with Stc!Sonic is that while I can recognize his merits in a vacuum and appreciate it as an alternative to the main series, he is not someone I would want to watch on a consistent basis unless he was eating shit most of the time.

    Like I said, I love Shadow and even I feel like he could get his ass beat every now and then to prevent him from getting insufferable.
     
  16. Adamis

    Adamis

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    [​IMG]

    That's Lew Stringer's second story only, and he admitted he didn't find a good balance for the character at that time.

    Besides, even with that kind of acid remark, Sonic still saves his friends when they're threatened :

    [​IMG]

    But thanks for reminding me of that, because I can post this panel from later in the run, that shows Sonic recognizing Tails becoming independant and is proud of him.

    [​IMG]

    Also, a great thread about stC Sonic.
     
  17. Aesculapius Piranha

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    Not even archie drew him as two arrows stacked on top of eachother, at least to my recollection. Also, Americans don't know Asterix or Tintin, at least not commonly. lol
     
  18. Pengi

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    They were supposed to. That was the correct way to draw Sonic at the time, in western markets.

    [​IMG]

     
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  19. JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    That looks completely different from that one StC panel.
     
  20. BlackHole

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    Probably due to a combination of artstyle and the fact they aren't also drawing in the circle of his face. Add the circle and...

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