Sonic X Shadow Generations thread, movie level out on the 12th

So, remember when I asked if Westopolis was in the original Gens soundtrack after unlocking it in X Gens? Well, I just realized that it was added as a replacement for "Right There, Ride On", because that's the one track that isn't there, even after unlocking them all. Kinda sucks, because that's the replacement track I use for Classic City Escape when I get tired of the normal track. Adding Westopolis does make sense considering the whole Shadow Gens package, but I wonder why that was the track they decided to replace.

 

Kingdom Valley always felt like the most iconic Sonic 06 stage to me, I think because it was the one used for the demo, so I’m glad it finally got its due here. Especially since upon replaying Sonic Generations, I don’t know if I really like Crisis City all that much? The 3D sections are all pretty much winners but I think it’s hamstrung too much by the 2D sections, they just feel really limp and the rising lava platforms that you have to stomp down on don’t feel super intuitive.

 

Yeah, I already had a fairly low opinion of it before but replaying the game again pretty handily solidifies it as by far the worst Modern Sonic stage imo. The 3D bits are great but there's nothing interesting done with the 2D gameplay here and it makes up a majority of the level playtime. Classic Crisis City at least is pretty solid but overall this is probably the worst zone across both Generations games.

 

I think the Doom Zone segments might be my biggest criticism of Shadow Gens. They're cool the first time, and the actual level design within them is fun, but the unskippable transition scenes, Black Doom yapping and overriding of the default BGM make them a little irritating on repeat plays of the levels.

It would've been really cool if restoring each zone "freed" it from the Doom Zone, and you could then turn it on and off, with new portions of the original level in place of it, but that's probably asking for a lot. Not a huge deal overall, but still.

 

They did release on the same day, so it's hard to say that they for sure did it for any particular reason, but the assumption is there's some rights issue with the track that they didn't realize for a while that resulted in its exclusion from Smash Ultimate onwards. I haven't double checked any of the recent compilation albums for Rush music, and TSR didn't seem to have an issue with Vela Nova (although that seems entirely rerecorded) but it's the best guess outside "they just wanted a Shadow track"

 

Hideaki Naganuma don’t have any issue and even wondering why it’s not on the game now, so definitely not a rights issue, just a simple case of replacing one track with another instead of adding a new slot for it

 

If you ask me, Classic Planet Wisp is far worse than Crisis City Modern. The Spike Wisp is super jank, the level is super long and boring and while I'm not there yet in the Remaster, I doubt that has changed much.

 

I didn't even realize this until now but yeah, that's a very good point. All the cinematics in Forces feel so arbitrary - the Avatar fucks around on some trains that don't show up anywhere else in the level, Sonic jumps on some drones that came out of nowhere. The fact you never fight a single giant Death Egg Robot in that game, even in a cinematic, is criminally stupid when they're teased so often. It's like anti-design.

Really goes to show how inept Forces was designed. Sonic fighting a giant snake really wouldn't been enhanced with a higher budget and better animators if it comes out of nowhere, has no relation to anything else in the level and gets dropped immediately after it happens. Funny how Shadow is so much smarter about using them.

 

Yes you do?

 

Insane thing to say then Modern Planet Wisp exists.

 

Yeah both acts of Planet Wisp are far and away the worst part of Generations as a whole. Arguably Planet Wisp is the worst zone in Colors itself, though there are some psychotic Red Ring placements in Aquarium Park that give it a run for its money.

 

I always loved the intro of Modern Planet Wisp, I played Gens before colors, and that track and initial presentation made me want to play Colors any way I can.

 

That's what hurts about it! Both versions create a great first impression but drag so hard as you play through the rest of it.

 

I might be forgetting things because I really don't remember that ever happening. Anyone happen to have a link?

E: Oh someone pointed out that happened in Red Gate Bridge, I beat this damn game and somehow forgot this. Uhhh, it was near the beginning of the stage with pretty much no build up so that's still pretty unsatisfying compared to how Shadow does it but fair enough I suppose.

 

The 3D section is pretty fun lots of boost jumps and shortcuts you can pull off then the 2D hits and it’s the same 3 sections repeated over and over as the rocket wisp spam intensifies. Act 1 is a decent factory style level and the sense of scale is impressive at times but the spike wisp drags it down with all those gears you’re forced to use with it to progress.
It’s been a while since I’ve played Colors but it never forced wisps like that right? It was mainly for finding red star rings, shortcuts and scoring opportunities if I recall.

 

What gets me about Modern Planet Wisp is that the last 2/3 of that level is all 2D. It almost never switches back to 3D. You hit that factory? All 2D except for like one 10 second part. It's crazy. Are they trying to make me feel like I'm still playing the Wii level? Because I was hoping a remixed version would have more 3D sections. I see some people argue that Modern Seaside Hill is the worst Modern level and I dunno what those people are on to place it lower than Planet Wisp. Nevermind that I try my best to never think about Classic Planet Wisp.

 

Nah I think it is rights because the Rush OST isn't available on Spotify either, and all this follows the trend that started with Smash Ultimate.

As far as I can recall, this all started after Super Spindash (not sure if I've got the name right there) and some other Sonic Stadium members started tracking down and sourcing the samples used in the Rush soundtrack, and I think that's the point at which SEGA became aware of potential rights issues. And to be clear, while these discoveries led to the Rush soundtrack being even more Sonic 3'd than Sonic 3's soundtrack, the blame doesn't lie with those users. It's immensely sad to see this happen even though the samples are clearly used in a transformative manner and it might even be the case that there haven't been any legal challenges from the owners of the sampled work and SEGA's just jumping the gun. Sonic Rush is one of the best and most innovative soundtracks in the entire franchise, pushing the boundaries of Sonic just as much as CD, Adventure and Frontiers have, so it's a tragedy that SEGA's pretty much trying to erase its existence.

 

Personally, I actually like Modern Planet Wisp. I remember trying to get the best non-hacked time on the leaderboard, that was fun... Though, I gave up mostly due to the Rocket Wisp stacking glitch, and the out of bounds 3D and 2D shenanigans... But eh, there's always gonna be way better/crazier people out there than me, when it comes to Sonic speedrunning.

Honestly the more I think about it, Shadow Gens is a lot more cohesive and consistent in quality. The "worst" stage imo is Chaos Island Act 2 and that's still way better than any of Generations' worst fare. Hell, I'd argue it's even better than even (most of) Generations' best fare!

 

I at least think the contrast between flow and rigidness in planet wisp was an interesting concept and a stronger level designer would have done more with it. I could see a version where the factory segments are the 'punishment' lower path for failing a tougher but more free form forest/trees path on the top layer

 

imo, the rigidness is only such an issue because of modern sonic's horrible low-speed handling, which is more keenly felt in 2D sections with heavy platforming. i think platforming heavy stages in shadow gens like kingdom valley act 2 would also be horrible if you were stuck with modern sonic's controls, but with shadow's handling - not to mention an actual double jump - it's probably the strongest 2D level in the entire game, at least for me. i feel like playing as shadow in modern planet wisp wouldn't feel nearly as annoying.

in general, the more i've been playing shadow gens, the more i think a lot of the "bad" parts of sonic gens are really character controller issues rather than level design issues. there's this bit in chaos island act 2 with the gondola that seems like an annoying mandatory gimmick, but because you have the double jump and you don't handle like a racecar, you can jump off the gondola and zoom straight to the end of the sequence with good platforming. i feel like there are many roughly equivalent situations in sonic gens where it seems like you should be able to do something like that but are hampered by the fact that sonic takes fifty years to change directions (even in 2D, mystifyingly!) and the only gradations of his speed are "extremely slow" and "uncontrollably fast."