Sonic X Shadow Generations thread, movie level out now

I think I like the OG Perfect Chaos design better as well.

The scale head and green light effects take away the 'force of nature' element I like about Chaos.

A good case of hardware limitations leading to a more interesting implementation of an idea.

But it is also awesome they could finally bring the original vision to life.

 

The Dreamcast design as it is does not work for me.
This is mainly because of technological limitations and animating a water creature is already hard enough, let alone in a game that doesn't have good animation to begin with.
It only worked in the cinematic intro.
And personally, if they were gonna fully commit to water creature design, I would not prefer a recognizable lizard/Kaiju figure and design, with visible eyes, mouth and etc.
I would prefer Perfect Chaos' anatomy to be a bit harder to figure out, a bit more abstract.
Like it looks like a weird sentient body of water, but then suddenly it opens its mouth and you'd think "Oh god it has a mouth?"
For what they were aiming for, lizard/Kaiju with visible scales works better.

 

The Generations scales don't really look like they're made of water which obfuscates that Chaos is entirely made of water. Regardless of the concept art I think the scales look better being a part of his overall form. This fan sprite is cool.


(Though TBF maybe the original intention was for Chaos 0 to also have scales?)

 

I always saw the dark patches on this official artwork as scales.

This was drawn way before Generations too.

 

Always thought sonic x handeled his design very well, in the shots where its drawn well anyway, mostly game accurate but with a more solid scale layer thats still watery https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/s...profile.png/revision/latest?cb=20230123065324

 

see I think this face looks derpy as hell



goggle-eyed puppy look with the green teeth that makes it look like one of those cheap glow-in-the-dark toys from the mid 90s

but also, yeah, I wouldn't even chalk up the SA1 design solely to technical imitations, because Perfect Chaos actually looks like it's made of water in the CG renders.



it still has detail (those are clearly scales) but it's translucent. Also its gaze has a feral look about it that matches its intended vibe.

or it's intended to try to express depth because it's made of water. they did give him a new model in SA2:B and it has nothing resembling scales in that way.

Also here's his Forces render.



He's clearly made of water and that's it. He has a gelatinous outer texture.

The Chaos People in Frontiers also look pretty close in texture to how Chaos looks in SA1.

 

I like the Dreamcast design better too. I wouldn’t say his gameplay model is a hardware limitation. It’s just SA was a launch game. It wasn’t really pushing the graphics. I’m sure the DC is capable of making a better version. Generations Chaos isn’t even a super realistic update. Just a nicer model. Of course now consoles could pretty much replicate that CGI intro look.

Similar with Sonic. I know a lot of people like the SA model (obviously, they made it a skin) but I’ve always thought they intended him to look like SA2 which resembles that art style but the game was already done with that roundish model. Like they didn’t quite match it because it was already developed with that one. I could be wrong but that’s how I always interpreted it because of the artwork and 3D renders of the time.

 

the more I look at Generations Perfect Chaos, the more I notice how stupid he looks lol. I feel like the dark blue scales/armour works from a game design point of view though, like it clearly communicates where his weak spot would be, which is fine for a one-off boss fight thrown in the middle of the game.

I still prefer the OG look, I don't think the Generations design really captured the original concepts quite right imho.

 

Quoting this for emphasis


This is what I expected Perfect Chaos to look like in Generations, so the blue 'scales' thing really threw me off.

 

Finished this yesterday. Second time playing Sonic Generations. Kind of fumbled through it. I don’t remember struggling with the controls. I still have the X360 version.

Shadow Generations was really cool. Really intense but not too hard. Good balance. No big complaints but a 3D White Space seemed unnecessary imo. It really just exists to run around and sample each ability. They’re easy to get the hang of anyway.

Even the extra collectibles could have just been unlocked in-stage. Why put them in boxes?

I would have structured it like Sonic’s white space but have it rotate to include Black Doom above as the “center”. So you’re going in a circle instead of a full blown playing field.

 

Hard disagree. White Space is one of my favourite parts of Shadow Generations, probably my absolute favourite even. There's quite a lot to explore and do, and plenty of room to stretch those abilities in an open space that the action stages don't offer. It's a much more condensed version of Frontiers' that feels more like it was designed as an open level rather than a non-descript map for virtually any game. It's just a fun place to be. My biggest criticism towards it would be the music. It's atmospheric and cool and whatever, but it soon gets very boring listening to that slow and creepy remix of All Hail Shadow. And the lack of slopes and abundance of automation but this is modern Sonic so hey...

The White Space in Sonic Generations is kinda crap. 2D hubs have never been fun in any game, in my opinion. Navigating a 2D hub, especially one with the inconsistent rules and janky physics of modern Sonic, is so limiting and frustrating. All of the level entrances at the bottom of the map are connected by an unobstructed straight line, and if that's too dull then you can also use a menu to get around. But at that point, I ask why bother with anything other than the menu?

Maybe it's because when I play Sonic I'm not always gunning for the goal, which is the way a lot of people enjoy playing. Thats why I love fully fledged hubs (and even Frontiers' open zones against my better judgement). "Frontiers 2" open zones need to take some big cues from Shadow's White Space.

 

I like hub worlds. I always wished SA2 had a hub world.

Shadow Gens hub seemed pointless to me though. Sonic’s white space is nothing special but it’s simpler, minimalist structure fits better for being a void where you’re stuck in time. Why give Shadow an elaborate 3D one? You can also use the menu to navigate this too.

I get it’s supposed to be more dramatic than Sonic’s but you’re not doing anything particularly important. Just going from stage to stage and performing short tasks for collectibles.

The same can be said of Frontiers (and even SA1 with how tight Station Square and Mystic Ruins actually are) but those hub worlds have a purpose. They’re portraying where the games take place. They help you feel more immersed in those locations and story.

 

Cause it's fun

 

Shadow's hub uses all of the same themes and motifs as Sonic's, just extrapolated into 3D. The gilded white castle-like structures are all in Sonic Generations, but they just become fat more apparent in Shadow Generations because there's so much more to White Space in that game.

It serves the exact same purpose as Sonic's version, only it does a much better job of it. And I don't think it's supposed to be more dramatic or anything. It's the same white void with a bunch of levels strewn about as before, except this time it's a plane instead of a line.

By context of the game, White Space was never going to be like the respective hubs/open zones of SA1, 06 and Frontiers because there's not much story to tell within White Space. It's a much more obviously gamey location than anything else. But it's still the location that both the Sonics and Shadow are stuck in, and they go about exploring it as they progress on their adventures.

And as Chimpo said, yeah, it's just fun.

That's not really the point though. In Sonic Generations, the hub is just a literally straight line between levels. Unless you're playing the challenge acts, you just hold left/right until you reach the next level. That's a functionally the same as a menu, but slower. In Shadow Generations, you can choose to use the menu but you also have the option keep playing the game between levels. Run, jump, platform, collect rings... All the good stuff. It's fun to go from level to level. Sonic Generations doesn't hit the mark here. The levels are on the bottom of the hub, and all the platforming and level design (which I think is really rigid and not fun to play around in) it's stacked vertically above you. You can't experiment or play around there.

 

In Generations it's also just kinda tediously designed, because getting to missions sometimes involves a lot of slow and annoying platforming. At other times it feels like getting to certain missions is only possible in the most round-about way. Not a huge issue, but not very fun regardless.

 

The level design of White Space in Sonic Generations is "Sonic-esque level chunks haphazardly crammed into a small space". It's not a huge issue in the sense that you can just entirely ignore that portion of the hub once you've found the bonus acts and collectables. But the one or two times you do have to work your way through it then I'd say that it is a staggeringly bad experience. It feels awful playing through level design wherein springs and boosters are so transparently used to move you run about 3ft and then bring you to a dead stop.

 

Well I don’t hate Shadows hub world. It’s fine. I just find it unnecessary since it basically works like Sonic’s...only now I have to trek through a play field just because.

Like you said there’s not much to tell in white space. That’s why it seems like filler to me. Also because as I mentioned Sonic’s hub (the structure not how interesting or fun it is) makes more sense to me. A basically empty void with doorways to other places and times.

 

Thematically they're the same. There's just more content and an extra dimension in Shadow's version. The only thing that makes Sonic's version "what it is" is the fact that it's incredibly condensed.

 

Getting a strange sense of deja vu on this one. What's necessary in a game, really? Sonic 3 didn't need to make Knuckles playable, but doing so added a lot. Adventure 2 didn't need to add rings and items in places you can only get to by abusing the spindash jump, but it rewards players who master that technique. There's very little a game strictly needs, but much of what could be said to be superfluous is added in the name of fun. Shadow's white space is fun. It's a good hub that's well and purposefully designed (unlike Sonic Frontier's open zones) that provides a pretty economical way to wring more content out of the games mechanics without requiring full levels that just wouldn't be built otherwise. The game would unquestionably be lesser without. When you get a game as good as Shadow Generations, it baffles me that someone would argue in favour of having less of it.

 

I like the idea of Collection Keys. Items you find in the levels to unlock chests you find in the hub world. I definitely hope that carries over to Frontiers 2.