Sonic X Shadow Generations thread, movie level out now

Piss off, jerk

 

I don't think Black Comet was even that interesting in terms of potential level mechanics compared with Chaos Island.

You know what actually bothers me is that the game throws you back to the hub in-between Radical Highway acts, which kind of breaks the pace for me at such a time-sensitive moment in the story. I wish in this case, the game just had you proceed immediately.

 

I actually wish it just did this in every case tbh. I found it really confusing after Space Colony Ark Act 1 when the only option seemed to be to re-enter the level you had only just beaten.

 

He has been quite rude i agree but I actually thought he was trying to make amends in a way there and I think these insults are supposed to be so over the top melodramatic you aren't supposed to take him seriously. He did apologise for swearing and brought up his Toys R Us Story - gave me a chuckle.

 

Getting booted back to a hub after a level has been a thing for like twenty-seven years at this point, the game ruining the pacing like that is practically a tradition. At least when Shadow Gens does it the next level isn't gated behind some inane activity like medal collecting or missions.

 

Well, I mean, like... Ya know? ^^;;
They sort of are? Accessing a chunk of levels in ShadGens is predicated on beating the main bosses, of whom can only be accessed by completing side challenges to unlock keys - And the challenges themselves are, within the most literal interpretation, gatekeeping future zones. That's not even original to SxSG either since they also did the same trick in Generations. It isn't inherently aggravating as past games, I suppose, but like... Look at them, they're literal gates lmao. It's kind of funny?

 

Yeah, I did pick a bad example, lol. The point was more that I enjoyed being gatekept this time. I didn't mind the challenges in Sonic Gens and Shadow Gens and actually really enjoyed them, it was undeniable padding, but it was fun padding so I didn't mind. That's a far cry from 06 and especially Unleashed which locked their levels behind requirements that I found to be tedious and unfun to complete. Unleashed was actually so bad I never even completed the game.

 

I disagree with this, mostly because I'm struggling to think of any mechanics that are actually specific to Chaos Island as a location. Black Comet has the hoverboard sections, Final Haunt has the vacuum gun puzzles (which aren't what I'd call good, admittedly), and all I can really remember about Chaos Island is its unique enemies and guardian fights, which don't appear in Shadow. The Doom Morph stuff is most prominent, and that's obviously made up for this game, and would fit perfectly well in Black Comet. Does Shadow Generations even have lava from Chaos Island's volcano as a hazard? I'm probing my brain but coming up with nothing.

 

Honestly I do appreciate the recontextualisation of the open zone space into more traditional levels. Obviously the geometry’s vastly different for the sake of that but, for example, the cathedral is far more interesting than it was in Frontiers where it was just a bit empty box. It still isn't the most visually interesting locale and Frontiers probably has better vibes in terms of atmosphere (a lot that is probably to do with the score, 7th Movement is beautiful), but it’s nice to play this area in a game that isn’t full of jank.

 

Oh sure, I'm not actually sad about Chaos Island being in the game. I wanted Black Comet to replace Radical Highway.

 

Chaos Island was a weird as hell pick for the Shadow Generations. Nothing to do with the character, Frontiers was the most recent 3D game in the franchise and Chaos Island was by far the least popular original location from it. But not only am I a total sucker for wildcards, they did a really good job bringing character and energy to the level in ShGens. It was a good call in the end too have that level in the game and I wouldn't change it for anything.

 

Sonic Frontiers was a major release and a really successful game. There's no way they could have ignored it when picking the stages for Shadow Gens.

So they added the one stage that had at least some kind of reference to Shadow.

I'm sure if you told Sonic fans to list ten iconic stages associated with Shadow, Radical Highway would come first, while Final Haunt/Black Comet wouldn't even make the list.

The only Shadow05 stages that I've seen people mention with any nostalgia are Westopolis and Digital Circuit.

 

Well, sure they could. The game wasn't being marketed around anything Frontiers did, Shadow wasn't in or relevant to Frontiers, it's set long before Frontiers (and unlike Sunset Heights we don't actually know if that location properly exists in Shadow's future), and Chaos Island was probably the least shown-off stage before the game came out (barring maybe Radical Highway, I don't remember which pre-release material featured it and which was actually the Doom Zones), and it was the least-popular part of a game people didn't even really like for its locations so much as its structure and primary gameplay loop. Nobody who wants Frontiers 2 is clamouring for a return to Starfall, they want to keep the spectacle of the titan fights, the intrigue of the writing and characterization, the freedom of the movement and design. As previously established, using a Frontiers stage at all was probably due to having the assets ready and thinking it'd be more worth-it than choosing something more obscure and costly. They almost certainly chose Chaos Island because it was the most distinct, having temples and mountains and a volcano, where Rail Canyon and Kingdom Valley already somewhat cover the arid and grassy climates that Ares and Kronos/Rhea/Ouranos use. Same deal with Sunset Heights, it was the most well-known and iconic stage theme in Forces, and the fact that it also was the stage in which Shadow entered the plot is a coincidence. I reiterate that nobody who works on Sonic games is going to be saying a thing like "Sonic coincidentally happens to have a throwaway voice line mentioning Shadow here, therefore we should include this level". A Shadow Generations designed by decisions like that would be an absolute mess, and not being a mess is perhaps more true about Shadow Generations than any other. It legit might be the most polished 3D game in the series.

Which is why Radical Highway is already in Shadow Generations three times before its own stage. By the end of the game, the iconography is already tired. Westopolis is just another city, we weren't entirely sure some Radical Highway sections weren't Westopolis before the game came out since the red sky in the first Doom Zone resembles it more than it does SA2.

Digital Circuit/Mad Matrix aren't necessarily bad picks for Shadow levels (I mean, other than not being very fun in the game, but that's almost all of those stages), but I think Black Comet is the better theme relevant to the game, especially as a final stage.

 

#KnowingSmile

Tired? Says who? I've substituted on Let's plays and Vtubers until my copy of Shadow Gens arrived, and every playthrough I saw had people on it going crazy from joy when Shadow finally grinded down the bridge. Having Shadow's most famous moment alongside his most famous stage as the final zone was brilliant.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. Shadow wouldn't even be able to use his Doom Wings in Black Comet. The nightmarish Radical Highway made for an excellent backdrop for the Devil Doom boss battle. And it was the correct choice from a narrative point of view too.

 

That's not really a rebuttal, but if you're trying to imply that Ian Flynn would do a thing like that, I not only don't think he actually would do that, but must also remind you that he didn't have a hand in the decision-making process for that, and probably shouldn't, because he's not a game designer. All that this hypothetical does is prove exactly why that is.

Okay, and me and a bunch of other Sonic fans think that it's a bit flaccid to include the level you've already been seeing the rest of the game as the final level. Look, here's Johnny saying it near-verbatim. So what? It's an opinion. "Many people are saying this" isn't really an argument on its own.

Sure he would. There's plenty of open space in those stages.

I didn't say anything about the final boss, that part is fine. The original Devil Doom already takes place flying above a ruined city anyway.

 

Please man, I know things previously got a bit heated but would you try to put a bit more though behind your arguments?

Both Sonic Generations and Shadow Generations were as liberal with their level inspirations as they wanted to be and brought plenty of new ideas to the table as and when they saw fit. Kingdom Valley never saw you exploring inside the castle in 06, the sewer sections of Sunset Heights were a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment in Forces, Seaside Hill had no water sections in Heroes, Chemical Plant didn't blow up in Sonic 2 etc etc.

Black Comet/Final Haunt was a wide open location visually and IIRC even included a Black Hawk flying section (I could be wrong though, it's been a few years). The levels had large pools of dangerous liquids, enough open air to house multiple "flying saucers" and not to mention there is an entire external surface to the comet that could have been explored. The whole thing is out in the depths of space! There's plenty of material to work with, and has more than enough room for Shadow to fly around in.

There's only one reason why no Black Comet level appeared the Shadow Generations and that's because the developers chose not to include to include it. Every single reason you've put forward against its inclusion is a non-sequitur. You're just trying to argue against opinions like you're stating facts and it's tiresome.

 

Yeah, he's not a game designer. Yet, for some reason, a lot of people mistakenly think he was the one who first started putting references to past games. The truth is that Sonic Team has been referencing previous games long before Ian came on board. It's too big of a coincidence that the one stage they used is also the stage where Shadow was name-dropped.

Nor is your claim that Radical Highway is "tired", yet you're acting as if your personal distaste is some kind of objective fact.

And it would suck. Interiors<<<Exteriors, is the basic rule when it comes to flying in games. The view is also better. Nobody can seriously imply that flying inside some dark interiors is as exciting as flying around skyscrapers.

And they did the right choice.

 

...No it's not. Frontiers only has three overworld aesthetics. A one-third chance is completely understandable, if you consider they already had plenty of less-obscure reasons to include it. Frankly, it would not surprise me at all if the people who conceptualized Shadow Generations' scenario had never even heard the line, because it matters that little and is so unlikely to appear in the average unmodded playthrough anyway. A ton of the Shadow Generations staff didn't even work on Frontiers anyway, including the director.

Which is why I've already explained it multiple times already and linked you to a different guy explaining the same thing, instead of claiming that "because someone agrees with me that makes me right".

Actually, I just told you it was an opinion in the sentence before the one you're responding to in this quote.

You can fit skyscrapers inside Black Comet. The thing is gargantuan, Final Haunt starts with you falling and some kind of giant alien tower in the background. Look at this:

Spoiler

There's absolutely no reason they couldn't have made scenic flying territory with this if they wanted to.

 

hold up chief what are you basing this claim on? because Chaos Island is my favorite part of that game no question, and I was really glad that it was the place they chose to represent Frontiers in here. It makes me feel that that was maybe the developers' favorite area too, especially those cool ruins at the top of the map that you traverse in 2.5D rotating around it. not to derail the thread but is this what other people here feel? Is Chaos Island unpopular? very curious to know