Sonic X Shadow Generations thread, movie level out now

I saw someone suggest that they changed the FOV in the newer games as an accessibility thing to reduce motion sickness. I never really got motion sickness from Unleashed or Generations but I can get how it might cause that for some people. From a gameplay point of view I guess the new FOV visually reads better, you get a better overall view of your surroundings and it leaves more time to react.

I've noticed that in interviews Iizuka will sometimes speak about wanting to use new hardware to truly express Sonic's speed. I know this is probably just interview speak for "we'll keep making games for new consoles", but in terms of expressing Sonic's speed... mission accomplished right? like, I feel like Unleashed was the point where I was like "yup. that fella is fast as hell"

 

I can't say I agree with that because I don't think anything since Generations has felt like the previous 3 games. Mostly they feel like Lost World but better (or uh "better" in Forces' case), and I'd hardly describe that as a racecar with legs. I just think the thrills of high speed you're describing aren't really a product of the controls, it's more in how the level design and programming makes Sonic's speed look. SA1 and 2 allow you to be creative, yes, I'm not saying I don't want more of that. But with stuff like Unleashed, I never feel like I'm making satisfying use of a consistent physics engine, it's jankier than most Sonic games. Unless you're essentially doing speedrun tech, anything more complex than the kind of skips you can still pull off in the newer games will mostly just kill you. If it's really trying to be Sonic But A Car, then I'd say it's just a different kind of awkward middle ground, one I find more frustrating because of its propensity to just bounce Sonic into shit.

 

A lot of the mourning I've seen for Unleashed and Gens comes down to spectacle and the quality of the enivironmental design, topography, and I'll just come right out and say I'm bored of spectacle driven 3D Sonic. It's been spectacle focused since SA1 came out, Unleashed was just the logical conclusion of the type of game that was. Unleashed was very good at wrapping three lane obstacle dodging in increasingly elaborate and spectacular ways, but it's still just that. What those games managed to achieve was cool but I couldn't even push myself to finish my Generations playthrough this time around. It's just old hat to me.

That isn't to make excuses for the following games though. Forces just represents these games watered down even more aggressively to their most basic form. It's more of a disembowelment than a new direction with less spectacle to cover it up. These games were in dire need of some kind of expressive gameplay mechanics on par with the original titles.

Sonic Frontiers and Sonic x Shadow Generations aren't entirely there, but I'm at the point with 3D Sonic that I just want more tools to play with and more choices to make now and Shadow Generations does achieve that sometimes. the focus on 2D levels in the campaign, the homing attack-rail-homing attack loop and the dull, closed off physics are huge bummers, but on the whole it plays more like SA2 than a boost game and that's a step in the right direction for me.

 

You know, at 1st I was sure HD Unleashed would be topped as my favorite Sonic game sometime in the future, but now I'm starting to actually have doubts. I was gonna say probably the only reason I love it nearly as much as I do is because the game I played before was... Ugh, Chronicles, but even today I still love it to death. Hell, I probably love it more than I did back then. Not even Freedom Planet, a game that fixes almost, if not, all my criticisms of the Classics and become a game I freaking love (What's taking so long with a physical release of the sequel?) can hold a candle to it. I'm not even sure I can see them ever making a gimmick I like more than the Werehog. At this point there is a higher chance of Rise of Lyric being topped as my 2nd favorite, something not even Shadow Generations could do.

 

I know this is largely pointing at my posts about this, so I'll explain why I have this stance.

Sonic has always been spectacle-focused. Since the very first game we've been ogling crazy set-pieces and showstopper visuals. The following classic games only continue to ramp up that spectacle. In fact, fan favorite Sonic 3 & Knuckles maybe most of all, as it's the only one of the classics that'll repeatedly wind you up and release you for a giant rollercoaster section to hold down on, and went heavy on visual fidelity with super detailed environments. The 3D games may have started the trend of leaning more on spectacle than substance, sure, but I don't think that should undercut how important it is to making Sonic "Sonic".

And personally, I never tire of spectacle or graphical detail in Sonic. TBH, I've felt pretty starved of it lately! Lost World is not exciting or visually impressive, Forces is a straight line with little detail outside the path, and Frontiers was.. well, you know how Frontiers was. I'd quite like some better attention to detail in the world design.

Now fwiw I think ShGens controls better than most of the boost games and I appreciate it's amount of alt routes. I don't even think it's visuals are that far from where I want it to be either. It's definitely much better than the past decade of stuff. But I think the difference between ShGens and Unleashed/Gens is still noticeable enough to where I want to see the output matched, at least.

I mean it's 2024, we're on PS5/XSX and soon Switch 2, and the best that Sonic levels had ever looked was two gens ago. I feel like Sega could (and should!) do better now.

 

Ended up getting this, it runs surprisingly well on my Steam Deck, I'm impressed, although cloud saves seem to be buggy on PC, it transferred my Gens 2024 save but no the Shadow save.

*EDIT* Not a fan of the drop dash the way it's implemented, at least for Modern Sonic, I've dashed into my death several times due to holding the jump button slightly too long after a homing attack.

 

That was actually aimed at Dissident's post on the other page and the overall mythologizing of Unleashed that's been going on in this fandom...basically since it was new, but sure.

Fidelity has always been a selling point of Sonic but it's obvious going too hard on fidelity kneecaps what you're actually capable of on the mechanical side. Maybe the "backlash" to Unleashed being a failure shouldn't have been as severe as it turned out to have been, but it just means Sonic Unleashed isn't actually a sustainable direction for a series like this to go in. That was true when it was new and the sequels immediately pumped the breaks on a lot of that stuff and it's even more true now that actually having more stuff to interact with on screen is seemingly going to be a focus going forward. There are ways to be stylish and interesting to look at without breaking bank or compromising your mechanics, but 3D Sonic was never that series. 2D Sonic was, but it's obvious achieving that in 3D is going to require a different approach than Unleashed's the-most-fidelity-ever-this-is-actually-a-flash-simulator-now approach.

 

I mean part of Frontiers appeal and the good response it had with the fans IS the spectacle , maybe it's uneven overall visually, but things like Titan fights, one of them having you travel across the whole Island ,and even Towers challenges which were a spectacle on their own, all contributed to it's appeal overall

 

Sorry, I was echoing a lot of the same sentiments on here several pages back and hadn't noticed how far forward the topic had moved.

Anyways I get what you're saying, but I don't think asking for the environments to have more detail, feel more grounded or have more substantial setpieces would or should be seen as "breaking the bank" either. Especially if you're not making levels as taffystretched as an Unleashed/Gens stage could get.

I just want to see the more exciting moments be from things Sonic and co engage with on the ground, instead of stuff they're hurdling through in the air or on a rail. If they can do that and buff the edges with a bit more detail I think I'd shut up pretty quick.

I guess the attempts at spectacle in Frontiers just didn't appeal to me. I don't play Sonic games for combat, the maps weren't interesting to look at or traverse, and the massive towers were largely made by clumping together pre-built assets. I see what you mean, but yeah.

 

I still really wonder what the original version of Frontiers was like before they scrapped it and restarted development. I know they do a lot of focus testing for these games and part of me is worried that if they ever do return to Adventure style gameplay, they might end up dialling it back due to playtesters who don't get it and think that the game is too slow or whatever.

 

I found these without wings after a lot of time trying to figure out where air outlets originally start, but I agree that they're not telegraphed well. It was really rewarding to me because I enjoyed the grind of scouring a huge level, but I can see it annoying people just wanting to mark a checkbox.

 

i liked it. i liked it i liked it i liked it. i like shadow the hedgehog. thanks

 

Just wanted to note that we've now had mainline Sonic releases yearly for four years now:
2021 Colors Ultimate
2022 Frontiers
2023 Superstars
2024 Shadow Generations

That's insane to think about when in the decade between 2010 and 2020 we had the same number (Gens, Lost World, Boom and Forces).

 

I actually completely agree with this. I don't think Unleashed is a sustainable model for the series at all and wish we'd be done with the boost style entirely already - the reason I bring it up is just as a point of comparison as the game that started this whole format. As they are it really just feels like they're trying to go back to something like Adventure 2 without what actually made that game fun.

 

I suppose not having 3DS Gens, Lost World, and the two Boom games helps a bit as well, but I'll put Lost World and Boom on 3DS over the big titles

 

honestly gotta say i was very happy to see that the S ranks for radical highway were actually really challenging, in contrast to the rest of the game.

especially before i knew about spear-gliding (didn’t watch any speedruns until my first clear), it felt like i actually had to explore and understand the whole level in order to get a low enough time - and it’s for that reason that i actually really prefer doing both acts of radical highway wingless, because doing so demands that you fully engage with the most interesting and skillful platforming sections in the entire game.

if anything, my largest disappointment with the game (one that has persisted since the original generations in 2011) is that the ranking system is sort of meaningless because the s-rank thresholds are so low. chaos control (which is charged by enemy kills) is a step in the right direction, but i still think - for all that game’s jank - sa2’s ranking system and mission structure were more-or-less perfectly tuned and every subsequent game has been a regression. getting a ranks in sa2 demanded not just speed, but full engagement with the entire level and all of the game’s mechanics - missing a trick finisher in sonic gens means you have slightly less of a boost resource that you’re already unlikely to ever run out of. missing a trick in sa2 is potentially catastrophic - and the thrill and danger of the latter makes the game way more engaging even in spite of slogging through the game’s extraordinary jank (clipping through the fucking vertical rails in final rush, for example). despite it all, i still load up sa2 casually much more often than the boost games largely because of all this - shadow gens has been the only game to come even close.

 

Power of the Sonic movies baby.

Any speculation of what we will have next year? I am thinking that the Frontiers follow up is not until 2026 - I think they want to keep a 4 year dev cycle for mainline entries (+1 for Frontiers which they had to fight for).
Sega internally doesn't seem to have anymore staff ready. Origins/Olympics staff just released Shadow Gens. Maybe there will be a Sumo Digital game of some kind? They are pretty trusted by Sega when it comes to Sonic games. They could handle a potential remake like Heroes, with mechanics and graphic engines unrelated to what Sonic Team is making. Maybe Classic Sonic content by Arzest?

 

I wonder if Sonic Dream Team is ready for a wider release? Surely their licensing agreement with Apple has an expiry. Otherwise I'd expect another port/remake like Heroes as rumored, or a remaster of Unleashed. The other possibility is a new racing game, 5 years since Team Sonic Racing next year.

 

I do wish we'd get a new racer with an on-foot theme. I know people have been telling them to try Sonic R again for decades, but even just the visual look of a game where you run instead of drive is exciting, even if it still ultimately plays like a kart racer, because it's Sonic and that's the god damned aesthetic. Just have Sumo make the game but make the animations for something other than driving.