Sonic X Shadow Generations thread, movie level out now

The real solution: Ditch the quick step, keep the Boost, and design levels more around the Drift. Yeah bro keep Boosting mindlessly....if you wanna fuck up this turn, fall to the lower (shittier) path, miss those goodies, and get a worse time.

 

Honestly not even sure why the quick step is still around at this point, Frontiers and Shadow Gens are so much slower than the other boost games that obstacles can just be avoided by turning. Especially in Shadow Gens, the step feels extremely unneeded and I'm not really sure what the slide added to it was meant to accomplish.

Anyways, its been a few days now and I'm finally starting to cool down from new game hype, and I definitely still prefer OG Gens over Shadow Gens. Nothing against the game cuz I still think its one of the best Sonic games, but it gets exhausting to play Shadow Gens cuz the levels are a bit too long for how fast paced they are. I think Boost Sonic just works better with 2-3 minute levels, cuz otherwise you either get Unleashed where levels are padded with running down corridors and repetitive side step sections, or Shadow Gens where you just keep up that fast pace with few moments to breathe. This isn't really a big negative for Shadow Gens tbh, just means I can't really do time attack runs much cuz I'll burn out quick.

 

I feel like I'm the only person on earth who can play Frontiers for hours straight, and then play Generations (or vice-versa) and be perfectly used to the control mapping right from the get-go. I can just flip-flop between games and have no problems with muscle memory. Heck, I can play Unleashed right after playing Generations, without attempting to homing attack with the A button. Maybe the levels, HUD, or something from each respective game do make me feel that way, because I have a hard time playing The Unleashed Project in Gens for example because I frequently try to homing attack with the X button. So I guess my brain associate the controls with the level layouts.

Also, I prefer boost stages to be 4-6 minutes long. It gives the levels more impact for me (also, for a more nitpicky reason in Shadow Generations' case, it lets me listen to the vocal track I choose to play in the stage till song's end).

 

You aren't alone there, I was pretty much swapping between Frontiers and Colors constantly, and atm I have Gens on Legacy and Shadow Gens on default and swap between the two just fine. I could probably swap between Unleashed and every other game just fine too I think.

Most of the time what ends up tripping me up is always button prompts, I don't really memorize the actual buttons, my brain just associates specific actions with a general region my thumb or finger needs to hit. This is the main reason why I hate QTEs so much actually, especially in Sonic Unleashed

 

https://x.com/time_pizzerNG/status/1851470072012800481


Yo, whoever the level designers were for this game not only need to be given a raise, they need to be the consultant on the 3D Games going forward. This feels like something right out of the classic titles and it's insane to me that it took almost two decades for someone to finally tap into that.

More of THIS, and less hallway simulators, and automated sequences that strip control from the player.

 

My reaction when I press L2 and then x a few times.

Okay, I’m kind of joking, but this is exactly the type of stuff I am talking about when I say that how this game does alternative paths a lot of the time seems off to me. The only real gameplay here is noticing the opportunity to do it. There’s no precision. No timing. No skill even, you just press the buttons and you can get on the path. It’s the exact type of shallow gameplay that gets old very quickly on repeat runs.

For that reason, I say no. This is not what the Classics were doing. Nowhere close. If you ask me, the game that actually does this decently is the game that came with the package.

 

I went out of my way to find and post this information a few days ago but 90% of this staff are the same people who worked on Sonic Frontiers. From the programmers, to the boss designers, to the white space designers. Of the three level designers two of them worked on Sonic Frontiers. The other is completely new to Sonic.

This proves all they ever needed was more resources and a bigger budget to thrive.

 

when boost go fast brain feel good

 

your position appears to be that the significance of an alternate path should be purely measured on the mechanical difficulty of accessing it, which is itself based on a view that that the only valid kind of difficulty is mechanical. case in point:

first off, that's literally not the case. chaos control - and questions about when to use it, what to use it on, and how to charge it - is extremely integral for the routing of every level in the game save two. balancing getting enough chaos energy with not breaking the flow of your route by having to stop for enemies is absolutely a skill challenge beyond merely "noticing the opportunity to do it." it makes the process of routing in shadow gens more involved than in the vast majority of other sonic games because of how much you really have to consider the entire stage when making a decision about what path to take when, and your ability to make those decisions improve as your knowledge of the level slowly increases every run.

but second, and more importantly - exploration is a skill! observation is a skill! the routes in this game are often deviously well-hidden, and finding them demands meaningful, undirected engagement with the game and it's mechanics. there's no button prompt in the aforementioned clip - the monitor at the beginning might be a hint, but if you thoughtlessly pop CC as soon as you hit that monitor, the boulders will be out of range and the shortcut won't even be accessible. to actually execute the shortcut you had to actually examine the level, make a reasoned inference, and then execute on it by timing CC correctly when the boulders come. i just don't understand how you could see an increase of that sort of design as "shallower" than anything that's come before.

 

As far as actually getting on the path, what you just described is literally just noticing the opportunity. Timing window is not exactly precise either.

However, I will concede that there is likely depth in routing the stuff.

Yes, obsevation and forming plans on how to best traverse is a skill. But this is the type of design that only really works on an initial playthrough, when you first do it. And generally you’re not exactly going to playing Sonic levels more once which is exactly why I say these things should generally involve BOTH types of skill.

Now that I think of it, this is exactly the type of reason I don’t care for SA1’s levels with its spin dash jumps everywhere; why I think that game’s levels are just frankly boring to replay.

 

I would argue even the classics become a lot easier once you actually know what you can get away with. Know where to roll and do a slope jump. Where to do a skip. As much as I love those games its not like im really experimenting that much once ive found a route i actually like, so I dont see what exactly the huge difference on he surface level really is outside of the actual mechanics at play.

 

No. Speedrunning the Classics, while easier when you narrow down what you want to do, is not as simple as what is portrayed here.

 

???
Where are you pulling your data? I grabbed them directly from the credits.

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I'm still compiling my credits list project. A lot of these people are new. Only leads and enemy designers are from Frontiers. Here's comparing Shadow with previous games.

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Here's comparing Frontiers with Shadow and the previous games. (I haven't updated its formatting to match the Shadow formatting yet)

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I've only documented the programmer/designer portions. I'm still missing the sound teams and other sections in my list. Need to do some spell checking as well. So far, Shadow has a lot more newer staff than older staff.

 

Using the Doom Wings adds a whole other layer to the game. It’s super fun to see what you can do with them.

This game is absolutely awesome. I like can’t believe how solid it is. Every 3D Sonic game, including Generations, has a caveat to it. This basically doesn’t… it’s just a really good game with a short runtime.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but this feels extremely reductive.

Since when are exploration and experimenting with game mechanics "Shallow?" Is that not why we played these games to begin with? You have to slow down (in a Boost game!!!) to notice the path, and then take note of the debris not being just a background element, and then have the presence of mind to use Chaos Control, and that's dependent on IF you have the ability to use it which you get by destroying enemies. The whole game is built on how to exploit and utilize Chaos Control to get a better end time the literally same thing we praise the classic games for. How is this any less involved than say, just spamming the spin dash and jump buttons a few times in Sonic 3?

I dunk a LOT on 3D Sonic, and I do mean a LOT. So believe me when I tell you that this is some of the smartest level design they've had in these games in years and I'm so serious.

 

I think the bit in sunset hill is fine but they do in fact give you a full power-up for chaos control at the start of that segment so it's not like you have to do a lot of route planning to reach that segment.

I felt it wasn't particularly obvious that the stuff the robots throw at you is able to be homing attacked once you stopped it, but I suppose it's a reasonable inference.

 

See I like that path branch in Sunset Heights, I really do. The problem is that it doesn't do neat things like this enough. There are neat applications to Shadow's abilities in every level, but they only ever do it once which really doesn't allow me to appreciate it enough.

 

Please don't accuse me of lying or getting caught in 4k because I didn't specify that I meant the game shared a lot of the same lead people, who would be involved in the direction of the project, as Frontiers when those were the 90% I was referring too.

If they hired more people under them to help with the project that is great, the more staff the better as long as they're being handled properly. But for many of the most important roles it was the same people as Frontiers.

 

That was literally my reaction. And IT IS A 100% REASONABLE REACTION TO HAVE.

Never I was genuily this impressed with a Sonic level design in a while. It's crazy.

 

I asked where you got your list. I didn't accuse you of anything. I need to compare notes.

Frontiers has 4 credited level designers on the team. No Lead Level Designer credited. There's a Lead Game Designer and Sub Lead Game Designer, neither of which joined the Shadow team.

The two leads in Shadows were credited as just Level Designers in Frontiers. They have no prior experience in any Sonic Game as far back as Unleashed. Seiki Hayashi and Masaki Shirakawa are new to the Sonic games with no prior experience outside of Frontiers. There are 6 level designers under them in the Shadow team. These are also new people

A majority of the staff are new people, and those new people are also being lead by new people. It's mostly new blood driving Shadow.