SONIC X SHADOW GENERATIONS - Dark Beginnings

Speak your truth brother because I have no clue.

I just think she sounds too squeaky.

 

So can someone explain Rogue to me? I've come to realize that after all these years, I just don't understand her.

So, she works for GUN, but also works against GUN? And even though she works for the government, she likes to steal jewelry? I just don't get it.

 

She's good at what she does, does it for herself, and GUN puts up with it because they want to furry on their payroll.

 

The real funny tidbit is the confirmation that Shadow doesn't work for GUN.

 

She’s a treasure hunter/jewel thief who also works as a spy directly for the President. She’s not technically a member of GUN, but she frequently works with them since they’re both under the same boss. Shadow appears to have had a similar gig in 06 as he was asked by the president to rescue Rouge and then was backed up by GUN for the rest of the story, but outside of Chronicles and the Archie comics that’s never come up again.

 

She's never worked against G.U.N. outside of her double agent role in SA2...

I'm not sure what's really confusing here.

 

Are they really? I was previously told in the continuity thread that GUN is most likely an international force like the Interpol without direct ties to the United Federation, given their name ("Guardian Unit of the Nations") and the fact they operated in Soleanna in Sonic 06, which should be outside of the UF's jurisdiction.

However, the fact Rouge is working for them in 06 and Dark Beginnings, and the fact Battle suggested that the ARK crew saw GUN as their higher ups, implies they are an UF organization.

 

Ian has said as much that none of them work "for" GUN over the past few years, only "with" them when convenient or as contractors. Multiple of Rouge's bios and in-game dialog have her reference working directly for the President in contrast, and he even showed up in Sonic Channel's 25th anniversary comics.

SA2 established enough of a difference between the President and GUN that there should, by all accounts, be a separation between the ruler of the UF and the global military that works "for" him. The President working behind GUN's back in the main game to obtain intel on GUN's cover up of project Shadow, and GUN being in the dark about the former President's request for Project Shadow 50 years ago, should set the precedent that they don't always see eye to eye and operate in different jurisdictions.

Still, there is enough material from the marketing blurbs of things like Speed Battle that make me wonder if the distinction has never really been established as a general rule. Those other examples of things like Battle, and I believe one of the more recent bios, contradict it as well, and it might just be in flux because no one ever cared to actually nail down this aspect of the political intricacies exactly, leading to the inconsistency. For what it's worth though, Rouge says "GUN asked me" in the JP dub of this episode, according to Windii's translation.

 

I was confused because she asked Shadow if he wants to raid a GUN base. I'm guessing she meant that playfully.

 

That's pretty much how I interpreted it as well. They pay Rouge in jewels to do work for them, but she's not a full-time agent of the United Federation or GUN. She has been seen going off on her own to hunt for treasure, such as in Sonic Heroes. She has no loyalty to them, so it makes sense she'd be willing to help Shadow raid a GUN base since she is loyal to him.

Similarly, based on unused dialogue in 06, the President requested that Shadow extract Rogue who had been hired to steal the Scepter of Darkness from Eggman (for whatever reason). It's likely Shadow accepted since he has some sense of camaraderie with her due to the events of Heroes. If the events of Expert Mode in ShTH are canon, then it seems Shadow underwent a test of his abilities, possibly as a means of certifying him as qualified for fieldwork in a freelance capacity. He will work with people if his interests align, that is, if it helps him fulfill Maria's wishes of giving the pathetic humans a chance to be happy.

Omega tags along with Rogue because she knows he can't resist destroying Eggman's Robots. Presumably, when he's not helping her, he's off wreaking havoc against Eggman's forces and reveling in general carnage.

"Team Dark" is very much a group of anti-heroes who do things only in the furtherance of their personal goals. While all of them are capable of empathy and usually fight for the common good (even Omega), they're quite ruthless and self-motivated for the most part.

 

Im willing to bet that just who GUN works for and whether or not they’re international or just the united Federation’s military is something that was never firmly established behind the scenes and is something the current lore team’s deciding (or has decided).

 

There was no double agent angle. The entire time Rouge is investigating project shadow for the president and part of this is tagging along with Eggman, even when he's raiding GUN. Definitely, during this game at least, The President is not working with them since they're also trying to keep Project Shadow covered up.

 

That's what the phrase means.

She pretended to work with Eggman, though actually working for the President.

 

Don't do this. Don't try to invalidate criticism because of politics. You're right; it's not for this forum and not conducive to a good discussion either. You shouldn't have even alluded towards this, because all it's going to do is make people ask the questions that you supposedly don't want to answer and fuel the discussion anyway.

For anyone unaware, it's irrelevant to the matter at hand but a quick Google will tell you why Karen Strassman gets so much criticism in certain corners of the internet.

Moving swiftly on...

Can it not simply be because her take on Rouge is so drastically different to that of previous actors? Not only does she make Rouge sound a lot less mature than other VAs, she slips into giving her a southern US/country girl accent at times and she's constantly in flirtation mode. At her best, as she was in Free Riders and Generations, she's bearable but not ideal. She's downright dreadful in each of her recent as appearances, such as Forces, Team Sonic Racing and now Dark Beginnings.

The problem isn't entirely down to the VA though, I'll admit. Rouge has appeared only sporadically and not as major character, so it'll be difficult for any actor to get a grip on her. Additionally, the way that her dialogue is even written has changed drastically. Strassman took over the role at essentially the same time that Pontac and Graff started writing for the series, which is the same time that everyone's personalities were were greatly flanderised. Suddenly Rouge was a lot less of a spy and instead became just a vehicle for her own boobs. Her dialogue became a lot more flirtatious and her personality was a lot less self-involved. Strassman had that direction when she was picked as the voice of Rouge and it's stuck ever since.

Rouge needs a rethink. Part of that is that is because they've got the wrong actor for the role, but part of it is also the direction and dialogue she's given. Shadow and Amy were bad in Free Riders and Generations, but both have improved immensely over the years with the same VAs. Strassman's voice has developed in the wrong direction though.

Kazumi Evans simply does a better job at capturing the character.

I'm not much of a fan of the cast for Prime on the whole. The whole time watching the show I was constantly thinking that they all sound inferior to the game cast. But Rouge is the big exception to that. She's also the only character who's Prime voice doesn't sound like an impersonation of their current game voice.

 

We don't need to do a preflight check every time the fact that someone working on this series sucks as a human being before we offer any other criticism of them. I like Wally Wingert's Cubot (past Colors, at least) and he's gone on weird racist tirades Mike and Karen wish they could match. Sad! The fact is, Strassman overacts constantly and the sound of her voice is grating. It's an unfitting actor given weak direction that makes for a bad performance, and it's particularly bitter for me having not liked Kathleen Delaney's voice for the character either (who didn't have terrible delivery or anything, she just sounded way too old). Lani Minella and Kazumi Evans are the two acceptable voices for the character as far as I'm concerned, and they're stuck more than 20 years apart. I don't think it's that crazy that other people would feel the same even if Strassman were a progressive butterfly of good opinions.

 

I don't think it's that hard to get. She works for them for hire. She has no loyalty to them or investment in their cause.
She works with whoever suits her interests the best which makes her a fairweather friend to all sides.

 

I got no particular opinions about Rouge's voice, but I do think it really comes down to not knowing what exactly to do with her.

It's really not a coincidence that the only actors who really improved are the ones who consistently get new material to work with; so really just Sonic, Tails, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy and Shadow.

Sonic, Amy and Shadow in particular got the largest bulk of criticism when they first came out and it kind petered out when they finally settled into the roles years later (or this year in Kirk's case, but Forces was a glimpse).


Meanwhile; how much material is Rouge even give, much less in a major role that allows her to speak. Generations, Forces, TSR, Dream Team, and now Dark Beginnings. Five projects over a 13 year period.

Prime is weird to me because technically, it's not even the actual Rouge for most of the show, but variants of her. Kazumii Evans has like 3 lines as Rouge herself and she has by far the least screentime compared to the others, even with said variants.


If Rouge was actually more relevant than she is, I'd imagine her voice acting would improve. Even if you recasted her, you'd run into the same problems I think, because the actors are just never given enough time to settle into their characters.

 

Idk she sounds like Rouge to me

 

Funny, but am I the only one who didn't read that ShTH line like that? When I played the game I interpreted it as Shadow saying "This was no challenge whatsoever, not that I'm complaining", rather than "Taking candy from babies is a-OK!"