SONIC X SHADOW GENERATIONS - Dark Beginnings

Hmm. I dunno about that. My issue with it in ShTH is that it came out of nowhere. You can tell that the alien plot wasn't a factor in the writing of SA2 at all. It came out of nowhere and they did nothing with it. Everything about SA2 pointed to Gerald's research revolving around Earth. The alien ass-pull felt cheap. The reason I'm liking it in ShG is because they're now building on what they already have to tell a decent story.

 

It did explain why the kind scientist Gerald created the extremely destructive Eclipse Cannon, which in SA2 felt like a plot hole due to Gerald becoming malicious (and thus needing something like a super weapon for his revenge) only after the ARK was shut down.

 

To be honest I feel like Shadow’s backstory and Gerald’s involvement in it post the raid on the ARK has always been tenuous. Like how the hell would Gerald have been able to do half the shit he did with regards to having the ARK crash into the Earth, or even just recording all those video logs? You’d think he’d have been under constant surveillance by GUN once they were back on Earth.

Granted, that’s neither here nor there on the involvement of the Black Arms. I suppose the way they’re woven is believable (in terms of Gerald needing the genetic material to truly complete Shadow, it also being the thing that afforded him mastery over Chaos energy), but I don’t really have strong feelings on how they’ve impacted the narrative. I guess like Blue Blood I’m just happy to see them as part of this series paying respect to its continuity once again after spending a decade paying lip service to the most superficial elements.

 

Hopefully we'll find a proper explanation for all our questions in Gerald's diary.

 

Yeah, it's on the same level of disbelief as Palpatine returning in Dark Empire/Rise of Skywalker.

And like someone said, it was originally stated that only Black Doom's blood was used to create him. But now, the larva is part of the process, and technically they're all linked, so it's a way to bring back Black Doom.

But that's the thing—it doesn't matter if it's this or him escaping through time. Whatever choice they would've made would still feel forced because it's hard to bring back a character who clearly died.

Honestly, I can't think of any piece of fiction where creatives have pulled that off 100% satisfactorily, unless it was planned from the beginning.

And about them missing the larva...

Yes, GUN missed the larva, but they also missed Gerald hiding a secret message to ensure the destruction of Earth. Then, after the events of SA2, everyone missed another secret secret message from him, warning them about the Black Arms and the true purpose of the Eclipse Cannon.

I think that's just the nature of adding lore to established events. Eventually, you're going to rewrite certain things or step on story elements, causing contradictions by adding new stuff.

I do hope after this one they just move on during that period 50 years ago.

Project Shadow can still have consequences that can be used for future plot lines.

Think of how in Marvel the super soldier serum has had a lot of consequences throughout the decades in-universe, but they all don't take place during Steve Roger's transformation.

I think Shadow could go down that route.

 

To be fair, that still seems to be the case. All Shadow says about the larva is that he has the same DNA as it. Considering Black Doom seems to be returning via it, then it would suggest it shares Black Doom's DNA. But it's not said that it was a part of the process of Shadow's creation.

It may just be there for observation, in case Shadow displays something weird, they check the larva: "oh, it does that as well, fair enough."

I mean, did he though?

I've always maintained Black Doom was the eye, which floats in the air, and the last we see of it it's falling through clouds out of sight. He could've scarpered away while the Devil Doom form hits the ground, and G.U.N. presumed him dead.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure they didn't in Sonic Adventure 2, but they just couldn't find anything to warrant a danger response.

Shadow was alone on the ARK for an unknown length of time (also, related to the prior conversation about warping to the ARK, how did Shadow get to the ARK before Robotnik?), I like to think he was the one to upload the message to the ARK's mainframe and begin the process we see at the end of the game. Hence why nothing was found by G.U.N. 50 years ago: nothing was there until Shadow put it in at the start of the game.

Edit: As for the Shadow the Hedgehog example, pretty sure you help the Chaotix collect that warning around the levels, so that's ALSO not in the ARK.

Like a robot with the ability to copy any move it sees?

I feel like a lot of superweapon projects could be missing and unaccounted for.

 

I remember reading somewhere about the possibility of an "Evil" Shadow coming back. Looks like such a story could easily write itself.

 

Not gonna lie but I feel completely the opposite about personalities and gameplay. I have a lot of issues with how Frontiers characterized things and think that Shadow Gens main selling point for me is that the levels look to be relatively engaging compared to recent outings. Strange how that works.

 

I don't see why the larva is a retcon; the scene of Shadow's creation in ShTH already involved a "sample" of black doom's blood, and other unfinished Shadow prototypes and heads, being contained in the surrounding test tubes in the scene of his creation. Black Doom's blood runs through Shadow, as well as all the other Black Arms; why would the larva be anything more than a living source of this blood?

The recording is the biggest question mark - I agree with Blackhole on how everything else is basically explained by Shadow travelling to the ARK itself. The chaotix were busy collecting data disks on prison island during ShTH's story, (who even knows why they did that anyways lmao) which culminated in them uploading it and broadcasting it through the ARK. CD roms, USB hard drives, floppy disks... Shadow taking at least one of those and just uploading the program to the ARK is all the explanation that is needed for how Gerald was able to pull off the ARK plan, at least in cartoony sci fi logic lol

 

The level design, and general gameplay loop of Shadow Generations looks naff. Relatively pretty environments, sure. But you could pick any level from Forces, Colours or Cyberspace or the asset spam open zone in Frontiers and it would be like, exactly the same. Sonic games have certainly been worse, but I was bored of this exact gameplay ten years ago. All that's changed since then is the controls have gotten even worse!

But there you go, different strokes and all that. I'mma leave it there before I veer this thread off the subject of Dark Beginnings.

 

Nah I get what you mean about that. It still seems to be mostly a step down from Gens/Unleashed. That being said I thought this was a totally different thread so my bad.

 

In the Last Story cutscene, Espio does wonder aloud about how they don't know anything about the person who gave them this mission.

Heroes had them working for a mysterious client too, but that one was eventually unmasked. Their client in Shadow'05 remains an unsolved mystery to this day.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be Rouge, looking to get Shadow some concrete answers.

 

I'm not sure... Vector kept repeating thorough how incredibly urgent their mission is, and the Chaotix kept working on it even after the comet got teleported down as everyone else rushed to tell Shadow not to give the Chaos Emeralds to Black Doom.

The person who gave them the mission had to be someone who was aware that the encrypted data contained the most important piece of information, and the only way to save the world.

+ - The mysterious client was Shadow, who used the Time Eater's powers to travel back in time and covertly tip off the Chaotix to start the search for Gerald's hidden message. Hire me SEGA!!  

 

Can I just say that I cringed super hard pretty much every time Maria opened her mouth?

“But when i see this beautiful earth before me, I just cannot help myself! ”

it is the exact flavor of overly sentimental, overly cutesy and innocent, waifu anime girl dialogue that I cannot freaking stand.

No one talks like this, dude. Especially someone as old as Maria.

I thought it would be better if I switched from the dubbed anime to the subbed anime. Having that language barrier to occupy my mind and partially distract myself from how bad those lines are usually helps with anime. But nah. I cringed watching the Japanese stuff too, and decided to just give up on episode 1.

I watched the other two episodes in dub though.

 

True dat. No one IRL talks like that since no one has so far spent their childhood living on a space station orbiting the Earth.

Now, If you excuse me, I'm gonna re-read Planetes by Makoto Yukimura. One of the characters there is a 12 years old girl who was born and lived her whole life on the Moon, and has a very similar outlook on life and the world.

 

I suppose that’s fair.

But I highly doubt that was the thought process behind this direction for the character. In fact, I don’t think there was a thought process past choosing a cliche anime trope and using it for a cliche anime purpose. That is, to give Shadow something be attached to for his “character development.”

Because that is definitely an anime trope as far as female characters. Common among ones that have far less reason to act that way than I guess Maria does.

Maria’s only real role in the story of Sonic is being a plot device, a source of motivation. Not being a fleshed out character.

 

At this point nothing will ever be good enough for people insisting she isn't a character, good grief...

And I thought me questioning how cheesy Sonic should be was a bridge too far from what people enjoy from the series' identity

 

I’d view Maria as a real character if she actually DID THINGS.

LIKE having to overcome significant obstacles, external or internal, in order to accomplish some goal. Or having a character arc. Or having any bearing on the furthering of the plot at all besides, again, being a source of motivation.

You know. In other words, if she just did something that actual characters do.

These are all things that literally can’t happen because Maria is in the past tense. She’s dead. That combined with how they have already established her kind of limits what they can do with her character without coming off as inconsistent.

At least make her believable rather than making her what is functionally a Mary Sue. I guess sort of focus on that thing The Deleter said, at least letting us see how she came to have this childlike mindset, rather than having to make stuff up ourselves and make inferences and headcanons and stuff.

 

Actually, I've seen many, many people outside of this forum commenting that Dark Beginnings significantly improved their opinion on Maria.

She didn't allow a deadly illness to stop her from enjoying her life, even if it meant she almost fainted after she rushed to see the Aurora. I like that Dark Beginnings actually bothered to show her illness.

Oh and, she eventually sacrificed her life in order to save Shadow. Since when the heck does that not count as overcoming obstacles to accomplish a goal?

You're way too jaded and uber-cynical.