SONIC X SHADOW GENERATIONS - Dark Beginnings

To be fair, as mentioned, it was a report by Rouge, whom expressed those concerns in Sonic Adventure 2:
"This is a progress report on Project Shadow, the ultimate life-form development plan. If this is the real Shadow (the Biolizard), the ultimate life-form... then who exactly is standing in front of me right now?"

Even then, when you think about it, the mystery still stands: she notes the capsule since we don't know if the Shadow we see is the one ejected from the ARK or a copy made on Prison Island. For all we know, there's a second Shadow hidden somewhere on Earth, and the Shadow we see is a copy with fabricated memories.

Incidentally, Rouge was really not confident in Shadow being Shadow, was she? I'm pretty sure she never told Shadow about his past in Sonic Heroes was because she was suspicious about him being a copy by Eggman, based on what she began saying in the end cutscene to E-123 Omega.

 

My theory is that yeah, Shadow won't go to White Space until after both ARK levels.

Either that or it's Act 1 -> White Space -> Act 2.

 

How can they be fabricated if he's remembering past details the others don't want him to remember, though? Even ShTH took advantage of this in Lost Impact, as opposed to The Doom - Shadow questions if the memory really is his past in the The Doom's stage dialog, since Black Doom is the one presenting him with it, while he becomes certain that he is remembering his past in Lost Impact's stage dialog, since Tails' spaceship alarms are what ended up triggering it.

There was always ambiguity surrounding it with those nuances, but both SA2 and ShTH seem to handle involuntary memories as proof that his memories are real. The only real compatibility I can see of there being ambiguity wrt Shadow being the same Shadow, is that Gerald managed to duplicate his memories through whatever sci fi shenanigans the story allows, ala Metroid's save station tech in the capsule or something.

 

I get that, but I think there's a way to have it flow better and sounding more natural than what they went for. It doesn't make the animation horrible or anything like that. It's still great, but at least to me it's noticeable that it adds some holes in the armor.

And like you said this is part of a package that includes a game that's about Shadow facing his past, again. (Plus a manga for Japan)

Just caught up on the trailers and it seems the game's story is going to step on the foot of some of the stuff we just saw.

So I would've preferred if they cut back at some of the exposition and leave that for the game instead of Maria or Rouge suddenly turning into wikis for a bit. Especially because they just had 15 minutes.

Not the end of the world though and I still liked them.

I'll be honest, I don't really see how Shadow's ending leaves any wiggle room to doubt if he's the real one or not.

Yes Rouge was doubtful both in SA2 and again in Heroes. But Shadow came later and made it clear he's not a replica by Gerald or a clone/android by Eggman.

But if you don't feel that way then I can't change your mind.

 

I'm just not buying this whole "dramatic backstory" thing. If I was Shadow, I wouldn't let my past haunt me like that – especially after learning the truth about my creation. Does life on earth even live up to the hype Maria had back on the ARK? Shadow went to great lengths to keep his promise to her, and for what? Why isn't he questioning more things?

I guess it just sucks to be Shadow.

I predict he'll get a second chance to talk to her at the end of Shadow Gens. It'll be so sad.

 

I think the only egregious exposition is Rouge's in the beginning of this episode where she just randomly explains how Shadow is 50 years old. And how GUN is relevant I guess

 

That's why I feel it's so important to make a note of though - Ian was just as confused about this himself, in the clip I linked earlier, since he had been operating off of the ending of Shadow's game being proof that he was real as well. Sonic Team telling him "well actually..." in 2020 of all things was a curveball to him, and was ultimately chalked up to inconsistency on their part.

Eggman told Shadow that he was the one who saved him from his fall in ShTH, but that doesn't solve the issue that TTo50YA suggested though; whether Shadow is the same from the capsule or one created on prison island.

It's less so about personal headcanon, moreso something to be concerned about, when the writer for the games and Sonic Team themselves are bringing it up, but simultaneously not relating it to the one thing that arguably makes sense as a source for this ambiguity.

 

Gerald managed to manipulate Shadow's memories, even if we assume that Shadow is the one ejected from the ARK. So any memories we do see are suspect, even now.

But that same detail and Sonic Adventure 2 answer this entire thing about if Shadow is from the ARK or not: if they were fabricated memories, he wouldn't have been able to remember the actual events with Maria asking him to "give them a chance to be happy." Gerald would've had no reason to programme those in if that entire sequence was just there to make Shadow thirst for vengeance.

The only reason it's a mystery to Rouge is because she doesn't know what was going through Shadow's head at the time, due to not being there to see it and not being psychic to read Shadow's mind. That's the funny thing about the Audience Awareness Advantage: we know Shadow's the real deal, as we also know he's the actual Ultimate Lifeform in Sonic Heroes due to us hearing Neo Metal Sonic saying "Ultimate Lifeform Data, successfully copied...", but Rouge would have no way of knowing either of those details.

So yeah, the mystery of Shadow in the Truth of 50 Years Ago was answered in Sonic Adventure 2, but Rouge would have no way of knowing that to include it in her report.

 

It's also related to the themes they want to drive with Shadow's character, uncertainty in the truth of his memories or what is presented to him. SA2 does it, TTo50YA reinforces it, Heroes throws the android angle at him, ShTH doubles down on it, 06 presents him with an assumed future fate, and the Sonic Channel material emphasizes the uncertainty again.

Is all of this proof that he's from the ARK though? Are Sonic Team's "erm actually" notes to Ian going to remain unchecked and manifest out of nowhere one day with no real explanation given, if they ever decide to go beyond using it as a narrative through line for his characterization? I don't even want them to go that route, but the fans should be aware of the issue if anyone ends up drawing from it as a "character rule" haphazardly.

 

I have to be honest, I don't agree with you that any of the exposition felt unwarranted or should have been left out. The only part that I might have changed would have been Rouge's dialogue at the beginning of the third episode. These episodes did what was necessary to avoid the game raking over the same old coals. And unlike the animations for TSR, Colours and Frontiers, this one actually is going to be included within the game itself.

Am curious regarding what you mean about the game stepping on the foot of the stuff we've seen in Dark Beginnings though.

 

A mere copy of Shadow wouldn't be capable of going Super and Chaos Control the Black Comet away into space.

So yeah.

 

Mere? Gerald said he completed Shadow on prison island, if anything Shadow on board the ARK might have been weaker/different. In order for Gerald to do any of that, under the assumption that he did create another Shadow in the absence of the ARK and Black Doom, he would have had to create him using the same data he used to create Shadow to begin with. And in order for Shadow to do any of the stuff he does in the games + having the Black Arms DNA, he'd have to be a clone of some sort.

And again, I'm not arguing about it because I prefer it:

Ultimately I would rather see a confrontation between Shadow from the Ark and Gerald on prison island comparatively; there's so much more narrative potential in that direction than "Suddenly Terios shows up" pulling the comic book clone cliche

 

Gerald Robotnik was able to build him in a prison! With a box of scraps!

 

So um, not to throw fuel onto the fire that is the weird vendetta against Ian on these forums, but apparently there's some confusion regarding Chaos Control: Link

Spoiler: For Those Too Lazy to Open Twitter

Naturally, the comments are pointing out that Chaos Control warps both time and space, but is it possible that Sonic Team is retconning what exactly Chaos Control does?

 

Honestly I really like Shadow having a bit of a panic attack as he flashes back to his time with Maria while closing in on the ARK. He gets over it very quickly, but I think it’s the most vulnerable we’ve seen him in a long time, perhaps ever, and it feels very grounded in terms of how our traumas can affect us even long after we’ve experienced them. Such a depiction of Shadow would’ve been unthinkable even just a few months ago.

 

I hope that song that was at the end gets played at the Sonic Symphony down the road. Because oof does it hit the feels there.

 

Precisely

I mean it's either that or questioning how Gerald was able to pull off the ARK plan to begin with; there aren't a lot of tools to reprogram a hedgehog in a prison cell, and the same document admits that GUN forced Gerald to continue work on Project Shadow under their imprisonment. The scribbles in his cell definitely mean something in relation to his plan, but he probably had lab access of some sort.

I don't think that'd be a retcon; I have seen Shadow's chaos control ability in Shadow Gens before I went dark on the game, and it involves him teleporting through space in a way pretty similar to Shadow 05's use of the ability.

I think this is just down to most people playing SA2 without realizing that each party has to reach the ARK in their own ways. Eggman had to reach his pyramid base to teleport up to the ARK, Rouge had to break in and hijack Eggman's teleporter, Team Sonic "had to" find a rocket ship inside one of those pyramids, all while Shadow simply walks off saying "I'll be waiting for you on the Space Colony Ark" from the start. Him chaos controlling Rouge off of Prison Island and the immediate scene following that taking place on board the ARK might as well have implied that he used the chaos emeralds to reach the ARK to begin with, but without assuming that, it can be chalked up to "yet another plot hole" that the game suffers from oh so often lol

 

I can't confirm because the game is not out, but having seeing the flashback and some of the scenes I'm expecting it to touch again that Maria is sick, why Shadow was originally created, his angst on him not being the ultimate cure, that he was created using Black Arms DNA, and his imprisonment.

But again who knows what they'll touch on. I could be very wrong.

The thing about Chaos Control is one of those techniques that's just broken and people have their own views on it.

So far it can warp/teleport, stopping time, time travel and shattering reality.

So I could see Sonic Team limiting it so it's not that op.

I do give Ian credit because both in SA2 and Sonic X we never see the characters just pop up on the ARK after the Prison Island explosion. They could've hitched a ride with Eggman after that.

But that leaves up the question on how Shadow was able to go to the Ark after his release and was there before Eggman showed up.

Sonic's capsule escape is the big one from SA2 though. I don't really see how people don't see that as warping/teleporting.

But the one that's more obvious is Black Doom using Chaos Control to bring the Black Come to earth, and Super Shadow using it to send it back to space.

Another thing is that sometimes in fiction warping and teleporting get treated as the same thing even though there's a key difference and Sonic Team treated Chaos Control that way.

Sort of how Goku's technique is originally called "instantaneous transfer movement" but then describes teleportation and even use the word for it. Even the Latin America localization uses teleportation as the official name.

But then Toei had him enter a "zone" in the movies that colors people's perception of the technique that looks more like he's warping that looks more like how Shadow moves when he uses Chaos Control in the gameplay.


Idk, it's hard to have opinions about this kind of stuff because we don't know who is making the decisions and the reasoning behind them.

Maybe they forgot, maybe the people in charge now are misunderstanding it, maybe it is a retcon, maybe for them it has always been just stopping time a la Guldo/Dio.

Let's save the question for Iizuka for the Sonic Y Silver Lost World: Future Path animation panel.

Edit: Forgot to add Sonic and Shadow also use it to stop and move the Ark back. Again, not sure how stopping time is a better explanation than warping/teleporting.

 

for some reason the three of them fighting that robot reminded me of the Air Buster fight from Final Fantasy VII, probably not the intention at all though lol

 

For whatever it's worth, in this interview from 2 days ago, Iizuka describes Chaos Control as "Shadow's ability to stop time" at 2:30.