Sonic X Shadow Generations announced, releases Autumn 2024

Drop Dash is an awful addition because now I'm going to have to hear that awful tink sound effect at the end that they won't fix every time I see someone play the game and use it.
Also may just change the controls back for Generations even if the original because Classic's spindash being on RT sounds kind of totally and completely awful.

People have been saying things like that since before I even had access to the internet, but it doesn't make it true. There's a definite difference between "Go back to the start of the level and do it all again, you fucking idiot" and "oh that's okay, just keep trying! You'll get it eventually." I know you could originally just buy assloads of lives in Generations on top of them being somewhat abundant but this WILL change how it's played altogether in a way some could argue is worse. I know if they did that for Unleashed that would probably be the worst thing they could possibly do.

Mania's actually a really good example of the case for Continues because everyone kept saying they were pointless in Sonic 3, and then you had stages like Oil Ocean and its boss being RIDICULOUSLY tedious to get past because if you drained all your lives before that then you'd just have to replay both acts of Oil Ocean which were themselves tedious bullshit. Continues did exist in the game, but only for No Save, because everyone had the (incorrect) assumption that they were useless when you had a save file to reload.

 

im glad about having em removed. Ive never even game over'd in base gens, and sure, they may push you to get better, whatever, but in games where i am already good enough but i want to use the control system to experiment, take leaps of faith, see what kinda routes i can make for myself, lives disincentivize that type of creativity. So as far as I am concerned, get rid of em. Impose your own types of challenges in place of em if it bothers you enough

 

"There is one argument and one argument alone for having a lives system in a platformer, and this is the argument:

'Fuck off! I like lives!'

It's not the best argument, but it's all you've got."
-Jim Jefferies (probably)

 

Not sure it's been brought up, but people on Twitter who had their hopes up for a Chao Garden are gonna be disappointed.

https://www.videogameschronicle.com...a-weapon-sonic-team-talks-shadow-generations/

 

It feels like I heard that conversation about lives system being nonexistent before... (*cough* Superstars *cough*)

 

That's not what anyone said and you know it.

I feel like if someone used this bad faith of an argument against you you'd start whining about how they're a dick or whatever.

 

i can't remember the last time i played a sonic game and was actually thinking about the amount of lives i had at any given moment. they barely had any impact on me when playing so the loss of them is not going to change anything for me.

 

It's funny because whenever I see a 1-up monitor I cheer thinking "yeah, I got another life" but I never need it in the first place.

 

It's a joke, buddy.

...Then what the f-...

 

It's unbelievable we had this debate when it came to Superstars, and now we have it here, and the best people have is "it's an obsolete mechanic lol".

Anyway, Gens becomes a little different for not having them. @Laura has said everything important about it before.

 

Sonic Forces didn't have lives system either, but IIRC no one brought this up.

 

Unfortunately it seems to be pretty well balanced and works like Superstars.

I've heard some people saying modern also has the drop dash like Frontiers as part of the Frontierification of the control scheme, but I've yet to have seen this in any demo gameplay.
Edit: Here's Gamescage demonstrating modern's drop dash. Oddly seems that the jump dash is still triggered by hitting the jump button twice before the drop dash? wtf?

 

Those posts are about Sonic 1 and Superstars, which are entirely different games from every 3D Sonic game since (checks notes) Sonic Adventure 2. Ever since that game, the arcade mentality of Classic Sonic has gone out the window. Alternate paths and exploration are now done for their own sake out of intrinsic enjoyment, or finding collectibles, similar to Mario. Not resource collection. The score system in Gens is used as currency and is no longer pointless outside of that because we live in an age of leaderboards and competitive multiplayer. Staying alive with rings is not as dire as it was before, but now there's a ranking system they contribute to, with its own rewards. And most importantly, Generations is not a game intended to be beaten in one sitting. Being able to save and continue anywhere regardless of how many lives you've lost takes any bite out of the lives system that Laura is arguing for, unless you think getting a Game Over should delete your save.

You may have an argument for lives systems being kept for Sonic Origins, or Superstars, or any other game that adheres to Classic design philosophy. But that philosophy simply isn't part of the mainline 3D console games anymore, and it hasn't been for a very long time. A lives system simply doesn't have any place in Generations specifically. It's not a bad design decision, it's just progress. I know "progress" carries this negative connotation of implying what came before is inferior, but all it really means is that a 33 year old series is trying new things in order to be accessible, stay fresh, and adapt to an age of bigger, longer games.

 

My disappointment is immeasurable and my night has been ruined.

 

People did, people also brought it up for Mario Odyssey at the time, and Origins collection, same points i have seen for years across the platforming genre

Perhaps the only solution to please everyone is to make 2 modes, a “classic mode” with lives and “modern mode” without, exactly just like Crash Bandicoot 4

 

this this this. it was always infuriating having to stop my runs dead to go buy more lives so I don't game over trying to get all red rings or S-rank.

 

This is the worst news that everyone should be mad over (/sarcasm). Gimme Chao (/notsarcasm).

 

https://x.com/GamesCage_/status/1799988516371550424?t=nlz8ajFbFmv47s3KEkKP3w&s=19

So it seems modern sonic does in fact have a drop dash. I dont think is enough to make any value judgements of it really, but it does seem a bit better than the frontiers one where you could barely even turn

 

When I die in Mario Odyssey I don't care cause I have plenty of coins. Experienced Sonic players were having aneurysms over some of Superstars' bosses even with infinite lives. There's simply too many other variables involved here to say infinite lives inherently work better or even that they necessarily fix these issues supposedly inherent to finite lives. "Modern games do it" doesn't work for me since I actually find the way so many modern games encourage you to play endlessly kind of nefarious. I think at least some of these games could learn a thing or two from Sonic 1.

 

Lives are antiquated. There's no good reason to have fucking up result in having to redo everything you already proved you could do before to get a chance to fuck up again. This is what we went through with Dark Souls's extremely long boss run backs, except in that game the "challenge" was often "how many times can you tolerate this 5-minute hike to Artorias". When DS3 and Elden Ring just let you retry from close to the boss, shockingly they didn't become flaccid easy experiences. Defenses like "what if the player just bumbles their way through without improving" or "it's something cool to find in a level" are just cheap excuses for failure to communicate challenge or hide interesting rewards without a contrived mechanic.

Also what the fuck is going on with that drop dash. Is it on the same button as the air dash? I thought the entire reason for moving it to X was so we didn't *have* shit like this. Does the A button just do nothing in midair now???